Julie Hilsen: 0:03

Life of Love Life of Love Life of Love With Julie Hilsen. Hello, dear friends, and welcome to another episode of Life of Love, where we live in the moment of curiosity, acceptance and unity to explore ways we can live our lives with more love and share more love with everyone around us, because when we show up in love, it changes things, and I honor your time. I thank you for joining me every Thursday for new episodes. We’re streaming on YouTube and we’re also on LinkedIn, and so if you want to watch the video, you’re always welcome to, but we’re also on all the audio podcast platforms that you love to listen to. So welcome and whatever format you’re here, I just want to let everyone know that, yes, we do have a video version, and I’m excited to share the visual content also.

Julie Hilsen: 0:53

So today is a great day. I’m meeting with a woman who has spent her life immersed in energy, from the moment she was brought into this world. She had a family connection with natural healing and the idea that our bodies want to heal themselves when we put them in the right place, and so when you come from that kind of perspective that there’s things around us that you can’t touch, that you’re surrounded by this etheric. I think that makes a person look at things with a different perspective. So Catherine Llewellyn is joining us from Wales. She’s just inside Wales and a blustery winter day, and so we’re sharing a warm beverage and we’re going to talk about the ethers, and we’re going to talk about her experience, through her life, of playing with the energy of psychology, our minds movement, and you’re just going to be blown away.

Julie Hilsen: 1:57

So I don’t want you to miss any of this. I want you to listen to the end, because we’re going to bring you a lot of great messages and maybe some insights that you’ve never really thought about. So I’m really happy to welcome Catherine to Life of Love. Catherine, thanks for being here and sharing your divine loving light. I just really adore that we get this time together.

Catherine: 2:18

Thank you so much, Julie. I’m absolutely thrilled to be here.

Julie Hilsen: 2:22

Well, I just want to get right into it because I’ve just been looking forward to picking your brain and when we first were introduced I was just sparked by dance and the synchronicity of me seeing your profile and you having experience with the Five Rhythm Dance program. It seems like a movement from what I looked at. Is that what it is?

Catherine: 2:51

Yeah, yes, it is. Five Rhythm Dance is definitely a movement and it’s one of those movements which, as it is, it’s a very powerful, wonderful modality, but it also gives birth to many other variations, so it’s got a very kind of natural thing to it, organic thing to it in that regard. So I originally trained in Five Rhythm Dance with Gabrielle Roth, the founder, who was an amazing woman in New Yorker, always dressed in black, very dramatic, beautiful, beautiful dancer, skinny as a rake, very fluid, brilliant woman. And then, years later, I then found my own modality for dance evolving and emerging for me, which I would not have been able to do had I not done that training with Gabrielle. So, and there are various other modalities, you know, there’s soul, motion, movement, medicine. There are a whole load of different dance forms around the world which have their roots in Five Rhythm Dance.

Julie Hilsen: 4:02

It’s so cool. And you know what made me like go crazy when I saw that you had evolved this, you’d taken the alchemy of it and used it with your experience. Like everything we go through, everything we’re curious about this is I always try to tell my listeners when you’re curious, go look into it. You know there’s a reason why it sparks you, and the synchronicity of it all is that I had just watched a video of this woman who was cry dancing in her kitchen because her son had left for college.

Julie Hilsen: 4:36

And it was just in the time where I was saying goodbye to my son, not for the first time, but for the second year and the second year. You know how much you’re going to miss them because you already lived through the first year. So when you send them again, you’re just like, oh so this woman put on music and she was just balling in her kitchen dancing, and she’s like cry dance. And I’m like that is gorgeous. And so I cry danced with her and my kitchen and I’ve done the dance where you’re happy in your kitchen, but I’ve never done, I’ve never made space for the cry dance. And so when I heard about you and your background, I was like I’m sure that Catherine has a really a lot to say about cry dancing.

Catherine: 5:18

Absolutely. I’ve done that so many times. And there’s another version of that called rage dancing. You know you’re full of rage about something and you just got to dance it out. But you can dance it out in a very, very full on kind of a way, and you can also make sounds if you want to while you’re doing that, which which allows you to to kind of get it unlocked from inside your body. Because the worst thing with with with grief or anger or fear or any of the other very difficult emotions, is when they get locked in the body and then we find it going into our posture. It goes into our facial expression, it affects our breathing, it affects the way we move. But sometimes through dance we can actually soften it. You know, we can actually allow it to start moving around and actually out of the body altogether, so we’ve kind of shaking it off. It’s a very, very powerful thing to do.

Julie Hilsen: 6:25

I know it makes me think about it for you.

Catherine: 6:29

Honestly, because a lot of people just think, oh my God, what am I doing? It takes quite a lot of courage to do that, to let yourself be moving whilst you’re feeling more of these really strong emotions. Yeah, that’s.

Julie Hilsen: 6:41

It takes courage to do that and because, yeah, it’s like, in our culture we do exactly that. Our culture it’s like, okay, we dance at weddings, we have dance recitals. It’s always at a stage, it’s always like this production. But like, what I’m saying is that, you know, for some reason it’s become culturally like there’s expectations to dance at certain times and not dance at other times, or that we need to have a rhythm or show up in a certain way, when you know what the purpose of dance is. More of a tribal to me. Like you know, we don’t.

Julie Hilsen: 7:21

You don’t have to be at a concert, you don’t have to do rage dancing only at Metallica. You know what I mean. You could play Metallica and run through the rage, but you don’t. You don’t have to, like, get dressed up and go to a show or to wedding or to, you know, a quinceanera or a bar mitzvah to experience dance and community.

Julie Hilsen: 7:44

So I just would love to break that paradigm, that you know that dance is only reserved for certain times, that you know you can move through with your body whenever you feel like you need to. And that’s what I’ve found so beautiful about your even your website I love. It’s called being spaceworld, and so to me, like dance is the ultimate holding space, because you have to command the area around you and I you know you even. You have a free book on your website, so it’s about people who think they can dance. So I wanted you to expand on how dance can help us connect to our consciousness, because that’s another big thing that if we can bring more awareness to consciousness and how it looks and feels, and dance can be, like you said, a vehicle to get to your consciousness or even your subconscious, right? I wanted you to share what insights you have about that with your background, and I’m sure I’m going to learn a lot from what you’re going to say, because I’m really looking forward to it.

Catherine: 8:55

Well, I’m going to start with a couple of very simple little stories on that. So one is I was talking to someone who lived next door to me, a neighbor, and this guy used to be a rock singer, you know, and you could tell by looking at him. He looked like really, really cool. He used to be a rock singer, leather jacket. And he said what is conscious dance? And I tried to explain it to him. He said oh, he said so. What you’re saying is you can either dance yourself into oblivion or you can dance yourself into awareness, right? And I said that’s exactly it. And he said well, I know all about the first one, that’s a rock musician but the second one is a new idea for me. So that was the first story.

Catherine: 9:39

And the other one was there was a night club I used to go to in Oxford in England and there was a guy one time he came up to me when I’d gone to get some you know, get some water and he said I’ve seen you dancing on the dance floor. I said yeah, that’s what everyone’s doing. He goes, but you’re not drinking, you’re not drinking. And he was angry, it was cross right and confused, because he could see I was only drinking water and he couldn’t understand how I could be letting go and really having fun, but only drinking water, right, because for him he would arrive and start drinking and just get more and more drunk across the evening. And then he sees me and this is completely challenging his whole perception about what dancing is and I said, yeah, I find I can actually enjoy the dance a lot more when I’m just drinking water.

Catherine: 10:31

Next time I went to that club, he was there and he was only drinking water. And he continued to only drink water and he completely changed his life because he started to be so much more conscious and aware. And he also came up to me and said I could never get girls to like me before, but now I can. And I said, yeah, that’s because you’re not being a complete drunken idiot. You know, half half, you know, not awake, not conscious. So that’s a really very obvious example of the shift that person made. But it started off with him being really annoyed and irritated that I wasn’t following and conforming the normal way of doing it. And what is that about, you know?

Julie Hilsen: 11:20

so there’s so many, there’s so many pearls in that, catherine. I just. The first one is you know when, when you make someone upset, you trigger them. It’s not always a bad thing Like we think oh, I upset this person, sometimes it’s waking them up. You know that you’re you shook up the paradigm and I just adore that.

Catherine: 11:44

And the other thing is like, but obviously, obviously it was the right time for him because otherwise he wouldn’t have noticed, he wouldn’t have cared, he wouldn’t have come up and spoken to me. So he was in the place where he was ready for that shift and that he wanted to make it.

Julie Hilsen: 12:00

Yeah, he’s probably looking because he’s like, what am I doing wrong, right? Like, how am I? I’m here, I’m, I’m drinking, I’m dancing, I’m having a good time and I’m just repelling these women or whoever he wants to meet. He’s repelling, right? So I love that you open that to him. Exactly, you shift his timeline.

Catherine: 12:21

Yeah, I never found out the guy’s name, no idea who he was, but he was there every every week, you know, and he just went through this whole shift. It was amazing.

Julie Hilsen: 12:33

Yeah, the universe showed it to you, though, too, because it not only happened, but you got to witness it, yeah, and so that was reaffirming I did.

Catherine: 12:42

And it was so lovely to see. I know it was just lovely, and I suppose that is something about awakening it only happens when we’re ready for it, it only happens when we want to do it. And I think for a lot of people that’s very frustrating because people think, oh, I wish everyone would just wake up. But you can’t get make people wake up. And anyway, who am I to say what someone else is awakening is supposed to look like? Who am I to say that I’m really fully awake? You know right?

Catherine: 13:16

Just when you, I am Maybe someone else.

Julie Hilsen: 13:19

Maybe they’ve got a point.

Catherine: 13:21

You know, maybe it’s not all about you know.

Julie Hilsen: 13:24

Right. As soon as you label yourself as awake, then then it’s, that’s a tricky. It’s a tricky thing to own, that you know. It’s a constant curiosity, it’s a constant learning more. I totally agree with you on that.

Catherine: 13:40

But I think another thing about dance is we have a body. Right, you know, we have a body. Our brain is inside our skull, which is part of the physical body. But there is some modalities which speak about the brain in the belly, you know, the kind of the primal brain, the earthy primal brain, and some people talk about a brain in the heart, you know, which is about the heart and love and emotions. So there’s this idea that actually the mind exists all the way through the body, not just in the brain, and therefore, when the body is healthy, the mind is going to be more healthy, and one, you know, in order for the body to be healthy, the energy has to be flowing naturally and organically and not be blocked, and a lot of the time, unfortunately, through sitting on chairs all the time, or through not expressing ourselves, or through doing the same repeated ways of moving, like staring at a screen all the time, leaning forwards, like this. You know, all of these things that we do that make our body become more stuck is more likely to then block the flow of energy, which then cuts off some of the energy to the mind. The brain, the consciousness, the psyche, the heart. All of those things can then suffer Because it’s almost like you’re kind of stopping the blood flow and in fact you actually are interfering with the blood flow as well as the flow of energy. So it’s just not. It’s not helpful.

Catherine: 15:31

But when you dance, particularly because there are forms of dance where you’re learning specific steps, you know, like line dancing or the waltz or the merengue or all of those, and I think those are wonderful, I love them. I’m not very good at steps, but I love those forms of dance, but in those you can learn. You can learn a structure and a shape and then you can just follow that structure and shape. If, instead, you’re doing conscious dance where there’s no structural shape to follow, no steps to repeat, what happens is there’s multiple decisions that have to be made constantly, in every moment, because you’ve got all these different body parts that are all moving and although they’re all part of the one organism, you know my hand can do that, my other hand can go and do something completely different. You know my foot can be over there somewhere and I can be leaning back or leaning forward, I can tip my head. These are all different things that can all go on at the same time.

Catherine: 16:32

That really exercises the brain and the mind. But also the free movement actually helps to loosen up and unblock stuff that’s stuck in the body. So that’s why the grief dancing, the rage dancing and everything else works so well, because what’s happening as you move everything around is things getting loosened up and freed up and the toxins are being kind of flushed out and away. And so what that naturally does is it increases our capacity for awareness, self-awareness, awareness in the moment. It also brings into the present because it connects us with what we’re actually experiencing, because what we’re experiencing happens in the body, it doesn’t happen in the mind.

Catherine: 17:20

The experience is feeling, sensation. So it brings us into the present moment. It cleanses our whole system, releases the flow of energy, releases blocks, so naturally we’ve become more aware, our energy’s improved and we’re more awake. And that’s just at the very first level. That happens right off the bat. If you continue to do it on a regular basis, you deserve it. Each time you do it it’s different, you go through different spaces. Sometimes it’s joyous, sometimes it’s stodgy and sticky, sometimes it’s very light, sometimes you’re just lying on the floor because you’re exhausted, but you’re still moving. So over the years, over time, we can become more and more fluid, more and more adaptable, and then what can happen is creativity starts coming through because we’re more expressive, we’ve got greater freedom of spirit, so that’s just a little summing up, but I could talk about it.

Catherine: 18:29

I have no idea how many hours I’ve spent talking to people about the dance over the years. It’s one of my favorite. One of my favorite things the dance.

Julie Hilsen: 18:38

Yeah, I can see why it’s a passion of yours. I mean because you know you keep coming back to space. You create the time in your day and the space to just be with your body, and not everybody is able to sit and meditate and it doesn’t always resonate. You have to create a moving habit and I want to call it meditation. It doesn’t have to be meditation, you don’t have to label it, but a moving habit of honoring what your body is doing at that time, just tuning into your body and, like you said it’s.

Julie Hilsen: 19:20

You know there’s different belief systems, but you know it all comes down to we do have energy channels that go up and down our body. I mean it’s. You can take a scientific instrument and measure the energy and it’s. It’s not woo, woo, it’s not, it’s not, it’s.

Julie Hilsen: 19:41

Well, I know you studied under John Herron and he he was involved with the sixth sense and he brought that to psychology. So to me it’s like this ether, this ether that’s around us. We can’t see it with our eyes, but everyone can feel it and it’s evident by love, it’s evident by hate, it’s evident by jealousy. You can’t, you can’t see these things, but we know they’re there, it’s in the ether, it’s all around us, and so this, this idea of creating space for exactly where you are at this moment and just letting that run through, however it needs to run through, it’s it’s freeing and, like you said, it’s detoxing, it’s it’s realigning.

Julie Hilsen: 20:25

And I wanted to ask you you know how, how have you seen, you know your clients? If you’re, do you still do Reiki? If, if someone does a dance routine or a dance, they have a dance habit and they’re, they’re committed to working on it three times a week, then when you do a Reiki session or some kind of, you know, energy healing, do you see, do you find that it works More efficiently? Or these go hand in hand, or has dance sort of just taken over? Because it’s it’s so organic, it’s such a good question.

Catherine: 21:03

I’ve never asked myself that question before. I would say that if someone has dance in their life, particularly if it’s kind of freestyle, conscious dance, they tend to become more receptive. So what that means is that they’re more likely if they have something like a Reiki treatment or even acupuncture which I don’t practice myself, but another way of working with energy or even massage, anything like that A body is more likely to receive and embrace and accept and respond to what’s being given than if somebody is the other end of the scale, you know, really locked, really kind of locked in. And I got a very good friend who said to me there’s no point me ever having an end. He said there’s no point me having an energy healing ever. I said why is that? He said because my body is so toxic it’s not going to receive anything or pay any attention.

Catherine: 22:10

And this is someone who drinks wine. It’s read me. You know he’s. He has exactly what he wants. He loves it, he’s carrying a lot of extra weight, he’s a beloved friend. But he’s completely clear they want me doing that because it’s not even going to touch the surface.

Julie Hilsen: 22:28

And he goes. He’s insulated himself so well.

Catherine: 22:31

And he goes. Impermeable right.

Julie Hilsen: 22:35

That’s his strategy to deal with all the stuff we deal with and I honor that strategy Like that is a strategy right, he’s a very, very funny man.

Catherine: 22:46

This guy is, you know, but you mentioned John Herron and in relation to energy, I suddenly remembered a beautiful piece of work that he did with the group that I was in. He came into the. This was before I went under my own banner, so this must have been in the late 1980s or early 1990s. He came, he was a good friend of the guy who ran the organization that I was in, robert Durbanay, who you’ve seen that name, and Robert brought him in to do some group sessions with us and he came in. This was my first contact with John Herron. He came in, he sat down on the stage with his legs wide apart, bolt upright, and you could see this was a man who had something about him, right, and one of the things he asked us to do, he got a sort. There must have been about 40 of us in the room. He had us all walking around and around the room, just walking, walking, walking, walking. And he said right now, I want all of you now to pull your energy in as tight as you can, make it as small as possible, pull your energy in, pull your energy in. Pull your energy in, pull your energy in. And now look out at everyone else that you’re walking around with.

Catherine: 24:03

And I looked out and what I saw was tiny people. I don’t mean physically tiny, I mean people who looked really suppressed, uptight, miserable. You know people looked like their light had gone out. You know that look that people can have. And he said, right, shake that off. We went and thank God for that. He said right now, I want you to let your energy come right out as big, as big, as big as can be, so it’s right out of you and shining bright. Okay, get to there, get to there, get to there Right now. Look at the rest of the people walking around.

Catherine: 24:44

And what I saw was giants, glowing giants. Ah, it was like everyone was glowing and I was not on, you know, acid or listeria or anything. I was completely. You know this was. This was a very, very powerful illustration of something which was that we were capable of pulling our energy and the suppressing ourselves, but we were also capable of letting it come out and then seeing the difference in how we presented in the world when we did that and the difference in how that then impacted on other human beings. I mean you can tell from the way I describe it. It’s really stayed with me. I never forgot it, right.

Julie Hilsen: 25:29

In that community you’re all in mental health and in helping and showing up to be there and to bring out the best in yourselves and your patients or clients, that you know the human. What is it? It’s the Humanistic I’m sorry, the humanistic psychology, the idea that you can show up a different way, that you can own your own individual perceptions, and those are honored. And again, you hold space for those individual experiences because everyone can approach a situation from a different lens and it’s really great to honor that.

Julie Hilsen: 26:13

Yeah absolutely that. We’re not carbon copy, we’re not destined, we’re not Freudian, constantly trying to overcome Freudian issues. It’s an evolution of psychology, this idea that people are adaptable, that people have the ability to change and show up and to have the levels of security to get to the next step of your consciousness. So I love that. That’s your training, your background, and you can come back to a tribal idea that we can dance through it and that and it’s okay. And you don’t need to be, like you said, on any kind of psychodrug, psycho-altering drug or alcohol. Just our bodies need to do it and it’s okay. We give you permission, people, if you see a lot of people singing in their cars and singing along to the radio or their Spotify account or however, people wanna stream their music these days, but it’s also okay to get out of your car and dance it out. Maybe that’s what we need.

Catherine: 27:25

My dance modality now I’ve called it being moving, seeing, and the idea is, when my group arrives I do this on a Saturday morning once a month and the group arrives and I’ll always say the same thing. So we’re here to celebrate, we are all exactly who we’re supposed to be, even when we think we’re supposed to be somebody else. We’re exactly who we’re supposed to be. So we’re gonna move. We’re gonna be who we are. We’re gonna move exactly as we feel, and then we’ll see what we see and what happens at the end after we’ve.

Catherine: 28:06

Everyone just moves the way they wanna move, as their body wants to move, which might include lying on the floor, it might include wandering outside on the grass there’s beautiful grass outside and then at the end we sit in circle and I say, great, what happened? How are you, what do you see now? Where are you now? And people celebrate oh my God, I feel so rested. Or I’ve discovered how tired I really am, I’m gonna go home and rest or I feel renewed, I feel refreshed, I’ve clarified something. And every week they say something different. It’s always a slightly different group each week, but every time something different comes through for people and they give themselves that gentle space to be who they are, move, how they feel and then see what they see In your perception is that they’re connecting to their subconscious, they’re connecting to something they needed to address at some level and the dance helps them see that.

Julie Hilsen: 29:12

or what’s your perception of that? That they have clarity about what self-care looks like for them that day or an issue. How do you see that?

Catherine: 29:24

Yeah, it’s very, very individual and very personal to each person, according to where they are in their life, what they bring with them into the space. I always say, however you are, just bring it into the space and give it to the dance. It doesn’t matter what is going on with you, just bring it into the space. You will be held in the space. Bring it into the space and give it to the dance. Give it to the dance, give it to the dance. And that’s what people do, and I watch people going in and out of those spaces of can I give this to the dance? I just did. I see people going through that beautiful cycle, and so the range of experiences is sometimes, yes, something’s come up from the subconscious and has been presented. Sometimes there’s something that’s in the conscious level that gets dealt with. Sometimes there’s just a break from all of that for somebody and just a beautiful experience of the body and being in the space.

Julie Hilsen: 30:35

Just a detox.

Catherine: 30:38

Just get it out, yeah, or just rest or peace. I play very, very beautiful music. I can say that because I didn’t record any of this music. I’ve got a collection of such beautiful music and I generally play music that doesn’t have words, because words can take you in, can direct you into an experience. So, I tend to mostly play music that doesn’t have words, so that people can actually go wherever they’re going.

Julie Hilsen: 31:08

That’s what I was going to ask you how do you pick the music and if someone were to want to experiment with it on their own, how they would find the music and the whole idea of is it a certain frequency? How do you know what the music or you call? Is it something you’re just intuitively pick, or can you expand on that?

Catherine: 31:35

Well, I’ve been doing this for a while now, so I’ve kind of developed my connection with the music over time and now it’s very much an intuitive thing in the way that I do it. When I did the five rhythms training, we were encouraged to find music that was most conducive, you know, like music that’s conducive to the first rhythm, music that’s conducive to the second rhythm, if you see what I mean. And so that’s what I did to begin with, that’s what I learned to do to begin with. I’ve now let go of that and now I simply choose the first track and then I feel into what should come after that and I feel into what should come after that. So it’s very much an intuitive, felt thing for me now, and someone’s probably not going to go straight from zero to that. You know in the time you listen to this podcast, for example.

Catherine: 32:37

But what people can do, they can play around with just dancing to their favorite music. Most people have got favorite music. That’s a beautiful thing to do and they can just notice the ways in which that serves them or the ways in which it may not serve them. So there may be aspects of themselves that don’t come through when they listen to their favorite music, because their favorite music might be speaking to just certain aspects of them. So that’s one experiment.

Catherine: 33:11

Another experiment is to take like a load of music that you like and just play it on shuffle, you know. So you’ve no idea what’s coming up next, what kind of rhythm it’s going to be, what genre it’s going to be. You know it might be hip hop, and then it might be classical, and it might be lounge music, then it might be reggae, you know. You just don’t know what’s going to come through and you just see if you can just let your body flow and dance with all of it, and then you see where you get stuck and where you don’t get stuck and you just play with it and you can find there’s some very, very good mixes that you can get online, that you can just download or stream and work with. That can be a great thing to do and that can also give somebody clues as to what’s going to work for them.

Julie Hilsen: 34:00

But I definitely say try playing around with music that doesn’t have words, if you can, because that gives you more freedom, you know, to explore and yeah, I love that idea of the roulette, and then it’s sort of like a game to try to match what you think the music or probably not even thinking just sort of go with the flow of whatever the song is. That that sounds like a lot of fun.

Catherine: 34:28

Yeah, that can be really good fun.

Julie Hilsen: 34:31

It’s so, so neat. And then do you feel like there’s certain genres that target specific chakras?

Catherine: 34:38

Yeah, maybe, but I wouldn’t use music in that way. I wouldn’t use music to target chakras, because music can be too strong. You know the chakras are, they’re delicate. You know, if I’m working with chakras with somebody, there isn’t any music on it, or if there is, it’s like incredibly gentle meditation music. I get a big no to the thought of using music to work with Chakras myself. Having said that, I’ve got a friend who does Chakra dance. She holds Chakra dance sessions and she does use music to help people connect with each of the Chakras. But she’s working with Chakras in a completely different way from how I would work with them. So for her and the way she does it and because of who she is and everything else, that’s fine, but for me it wouldn’t be. So now I’ve been really confused.

Julie Hilsen: 35:50

Yeah, well, I love that. I love that Because it’s like respecting, and it’s another level of consciousness, right, like if it’s not serving you, if you get a weird feeling, if it doesn’t resonate, then just go to the next thing. You don’t have to own something because someone else did it. It’s this idea that you have discernment, that you’re not, I always say, sheeple, you’re an individual person. We all contribute to the whole, we’re all needed, but to show up for the whole, we have to be whole in ourselves, and I think that’s a beautiful sentiment and I love.

Catherine: 36:30

I have recommended that people go to her dance because it’s beautiful and I’ve been as well and it was beautiful. So, yeah, exactly right. And the diversity at all and the different ways everybody works is a wonderful thing.

Julie Hilsen: 36:46

I love it Sounds like you have a whole community around it. What drew me to was that okay, so you’re feeling sad, just put on a sad song and just be in it. Just don’t put on a happy song, don’t change your state, just be with your sad song until you’re done. And that’s what drew me about the cry dance was that you’re not trying to change your state. You’re honoring exactly where you are and you’re being, like you said, authentic. It’s very vulnerable to just sit in that and it almost seems indulgent. But if you can honor and play that really sad song and be really sad with it, I think that it helps you get through it faster than if you were to push it down with your trash compactor of emotions and pretend like you aren’t sad or just get really busy and not honor what you’re going through. So you know I hold space for people to just be authentic in that and just try it. If it doesn’t make you feel better, then at least you tried. But I think it will.

Catherine: 37:55

I do believe it would, absolutely. I think I was talking to someone here. I actually did an episode recently about resistance. You know that quite often exists ourselves. You know we’re battling against ourselves. And I said to a friend you know what, if we could all just stop resisting ourselves and battling with ourselves, everything would be great. They said well, that’s true, catherine. I wish it were that simple, because it’s not.

Julie Hilsen: 38:26

And don’t have fear, give it to the dance. I love that. It’s like you know. There’s a saying give it to God. You could say give it to the dance because it’s the same God energy like that release, that surrender, that exactly I can be empowered.

Catherine: 38:42

Definitely yeah, I love that.

Julie Hilsen: 38:46

I need to, catherine. This has been such a great conversation we’re coming up to the end and I just, I just really appreciate how the message came through. I knew we were going to talk about the evolution of consciousness and and I hope that that we really nailed it for the listeners to understand that or just have the idea that you know, they can have an evolution of consciousness just by showing up in their authentic self. I wondered if you have any more, if you have a pep talk for that, or there’s anything else on your heart today that you want to share on life of love.

Catherine: 39:23

Thank you. Well, there’s so much I’d love to say in response to all the things you’ve said. I feel like we could talk for ages, but something that just came through just then was just this thing of you know, when you, when you get up from wherever you’re sitting at the moment, or maybe you’re driving your car or whatever you’re doing, but next time you’re kind of standing up or moving into a different thing. Just imagine that it’s a dance. So you’re dancing off your chair and you’re just dancing to the door and through the door and down the stairs or up the stairs. And as you put out the trash, it’s a dance yes, I love it. And as you wash your child, it’s a dance. And as you cook the dinner, it’s a dance. And just imagine that. So the way your hips move, the way your weight shifts, where your feet move, the way your arms lift, where your head tilts, imagine it all as a dance, a beautiful, perfect dance.

Catherine: 40:27

And if you, don’t, you’re making me want to cry Just just just feel and enjoy that beauty that’s in you and always there for you.

Julie Hilsen: 40:42

I love it. It makes me think of Mary Poppins. Just go through, get your spoon full of sugar in your accent. It’s just awesome. Yeah, I know we’re going through some times in our society and in our evolution that we need to connect to that beauty of every day, and I think that’s why I’m tearing up is that I just want everyone to feel that divinity and if they can dance to their day like you just described, it’s going to lighten your world and I’m crying a happy tears of picturing people doing that. It’s just like the magic you could bring into your household, into your street. It’s just I love it. I love it.

Catherine: 41:31

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Julie Hilsen: 41:34

Thank you and all the blessings. I really appreciate all this Me too.

Catherine: 41:39

It’s been such a pleasure being with you this afternoon, Julie or this morning for you, but this afternoon for me.

Julie Hilsen: 41:47

Yes, I get to continue my day. Thank you so much.

Catherine: 41:50

Thank you so much.