Julie Hilsen: 0:00

Life of Love, life of Love Life of Love Life of Love.

Journey of Love and Discovery

Julie Hilsen: 0:08

Hello, dear friends, and welcome to another episode of Life of Love, where we gather every week with special soul searchers and people of light and love, and today is no exception. We have a wonderful spirit Irene, Stern-Frielich, and she’s coming here from the East Coast and she’s had a lot of travels the last few years and I’m so excited for her to share her journeys and her discovery. She is a detective in the biggest sense and she’s written a book which has gotten an award. It’s called Shattered Stars, healing Hearts, unraveling my Father’s Holocaust Story. So check that out. She goes into her story, her family story that she’s uncovered little by little, piece by piece, and it’s just. I’ve read it and it’s an incredible documentary and it’s really an inspiration. Irene, thank you for being on Life of Love. I’m so happy to have you. Thank you, julie, I’m thrilled to be here.

Julie Hilsen: 1:12

I just we have so much to cover and so little time and I just, gosh, you grew up in the States and it sounded like from your book you had sort of a childhood where you’re getting your stuff done, being productive and an active child, and it seems like maybe you knew your dad was sort of tortured by something, but you never really knew what. And would you like to just give some insight as to your childhood and if you thought like he dropped some seeds of things that he tried to protect you from, or do you feel like you’re so insulated that this was more of an adult thing?

Irene Stern Frielich: 1:59

Yeah. So I mean, that’s really a heavy question and that’s a lot of what I do explore and come to realize in the book. But you know, growing up I knew that my father had been in Germany and in Holland during the Holocaust and I knew a couple of tidbits of his story. I knew he was in hiding, but that’s all I knew. He didn’t talk about it, which is very common for Holocaust survivors they either talk about it, sometimes too much for their kids, sometimes not at all. So he had this trauma and I now have the word for inherited trauma that I did not know until about five years ago.

Irene Stern Frielich: 2:36

And so there was just these unspoken secrets I would say that permeated my childhood. Right, you just didn’t talk about it, you didn’t ask about it, and I felt very different because of that. You know, like my father had an accent. I didn’t know the whole story, couldn’t talk about it with my friends because I didn’t know, couldn’t talk about it in my extended family because they didn’t talk about it. And so I, just like you said, they didn’t talk about it. And so I, just like you said, just head down, do my thing, overachieve, because that is the message I took from it Because your dad is just such a hard worker. He was a really hard worker and he had an eighth grade education. He was never able to finish school or go back to school and he just worked physically. He worked a very difficult job making a life for our family. So that’s what I learned from him.

Julie Hilsen: 3:31

Yeah, did you get the feeling he shared with your mom at all? I mean, I didn’t get that in your book. Like your mom’s perspective, she is able to help him integrate anything. Or if it was just like that was, was just he put it in a box and that was just it. He had his box of memories and you know how did how did your mom show up in this?

Irene Stern Frielich: 3:54

Yeah, so you know, one of the things that’s so hard about the story and many people’s stories is that they never ask their parents things and then and then day they die, and then there’s this regret that we never asked our parents things. Now my father died when I was 33. So I was pretty young, which is why I never got to really ask him questions. But my mother died when I was 23. So I truly was never in a place in my life where I realized I should be asking her these questions. So I have actually no idea what she knows. I assume my father told her everything, but she never talked about it and I was very young when she died, so I don’t know. Yeah, that’s.

Julie Hilsen: 4:39

I mean, I wish I understood earlier the power of the divine feminine and how women can support each other in a way that is just beautiful and we feel things, and not that men don’t feel things but we tend to anticipate or help out in a way that’s nurturing, because that’s sort of what we’re wired to do. And to me, my insight is that they gave you such a good life that they just didn’t want you to have to look back and face the horror of what he went through on his 12th birthday. I mean, do you want to go there? His family was living in Germany, a very successful shop with clothing, and your grandmother was a seamstress. It’s just a beautiful life. It just sounds like a storybook. This little town in Germany with a storefront. They worked so hard to build a life and then on his 12th birthday, you talk about how you know there is broken glass, and that’s the name. That’s how your book was named. I’m assuming that Shattered Glass was how it all started.

Irene Stern Frielich: 5:53

Yeah, well, you know it was building up. The Shattered Glass happened in 1938, and when Hitler came into power in 1933, things already started getting bad for Jewish people. But 1938 was the culmination of that. And actually you’re right, the title Shattered refers to the shattering of their lives, really the glass and their whole lives. And star in German is stern stern, so it’s the shattering of my family, the stern family.

Julie Hilsen: 6:23

Yeah, oh, my goodness Chills.

Irene Stern Frielich: 6:27

Oh, chills. So that’s how I came to that part of the of my family stern family yeah, oh, my goodness, chills, oh chills. So that’s how I came to the that part of the title. Yeah, and you know, I should say how I found out about that experience of my father’s, because he never told me really what happened on that night. That is referred to as Kristallnacht, the night of of Shattered Glass in German. Yeah, yeah, he had made what’s called a testimony video, where a lot of Holocaust survivors made these videos, and the most famous ones are at the Shoah Foundation at USC and at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in DC.

Irene Stern Frielich: 7:01

So he made his own. Somebody videoed him I don’t know who it was. It never went anywhere other than to my brother and me after he died. So we received the video after he died in 2019. When did he die? In 1994, a long time ago and I took it out again in 2017 to really start delving into the story and because we have the internet now, it wasn’t so great back when he died, if we had it at all. I can’t even remember. I was able to research all these things that he found and I should say all of the places where he was and the experience he had, and so that’s how I found out about his experience on Kristallnacht and what happened.

Julie Hilsen: 7:50

I’m just imagining opening up this package that came through the will or whatever. However, he had it stored, and did you watch it in the 90s or you just waited?

Irene Stern Frielich: 8:02

Oh, I watched it, so it was on the old on um the old tape, uh vcr vhs tape.

Irene Stern Frielich: 8:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s what we had back then. Um, some people listening might not even know what that is, but that’s okay. At least it wasn’t a beta, right, that’s true. But I did watch it and I couldn’t understand the chronology. It seemed disjointed and jumpy and I couldn’t understand the chronology. It seemed disjointed and jumpy and I couldn’t understand the words he was saying the places in Holland because the pronunciation is not what I was used to and even when he spelled it out like he was in these little tiny towns, I wouldn’t have been able to find that on a map. So I did listen to it once and I put it away and I literally said maybe one day I’ll come back to this. So in 2017 is when I came back to it.

Julie Hilsen: 8:50

And you had the world at your fingertips and I’m just picturing you going to Google and typing in Google maps and getting the aerials of these places and just you know like you were super sleuth I mean the way you untangled this hairball of whatever he said. Like you know you really it was your mission and it’s just so beautiful, so beautiful how you took that and were you able to restore it. Has that been part of his legacy that you’ve you’ve preserved?

Irene Stern Frielich: 9:21

Yeah, yeah. So, even in order to watch it again in 2017. I couldn’t watch it on the VHS tape, so I brought it somewhere where they digitized it for me, so now I do have it available on YouTube to the people. It’s actually in the in the book notes, which are online, but, um, yeah, so it’s available and my cousins have been watching it and some friends who are really into the story have watched it as well, because, you know, it’s really amazing to hear his voice tell the story. It’s one thing when I write even when I’m writing his exact words that it’s a totally different experience to hear him say it out loud yeah, and the whole, the whole foresight of your grandfather to do what he did.

Survival and Courage in WWII Germany

Julie Hilsen: 10:07

He saw the signs. I think that’s such a good thing for everyone to learn. Notice when things in your about what he did to preserve and plan for your family to exit, Because he knew it was coming. I mean he had that fake wall or whatever, that climbing through the window thing. I mean maybe you want to take us through that and I’m just so excited to hear it from you because reading it was just such an adventure.

Irene Stern Frielich: 10:46

It’s really amazing. You know. I remember when I was younger, understanding enough to know that my family didn’t leave Germany to come to America before it was too late, basically, and being upset about that and angry about that, and what I’ve since learned was that not many people could come to America. There were quota systems in place, so clearly my grandfather was trying to get out of the country. I do know that now, but because he had this foresight, he number one smuggled his own money across the border into Holland.

Julie Hilsen: 11:18

Into a Dutch account Like a safe account A Dutch bank account right, which came in very handy.

Irene Stern Frielich: 11:23

They needed that money when they got it. And number two at some point early in the 1920s or 30s, I guess, he went in the attic. He built some kind of a hidden window. I don’t know exactly if there was a wall in front of it, but it was not obvious to anybody except he knew where it was. And it was on Kristallnacht that they utilized that hidden window. But it was not obvious to anybody except he knew where it was.

Irene Stern Frielich: 11:44

And it was on Kristallnacht that they utilized that hidden window, believe it or not, and escaped through that window onto their roof because the the brown shirts, so that the Nazis that were um, damaging, damaging like um, totally destroying their business, you know could have come upstairs into their living quarters as well. And so that’s why they went out on the roof through this hidden window In their pajamas. In their pajamas All they had was their pajamas, and in fact it was cold out. So it was November that night, so it was cold, and so my grandfather my father explains in his video my grandfather went back down into the store, so all the way downstairs, to get their coats, which I guess were hanging, you know, right near the near the door to the outside while the store is being destroyed and then somebody comes up to him with a gun and he quickly goes back into what they call the living quarters, locks the door behind him really fast. I mean I’m picturing, like you know, lief Schreiber or something doing this Like. Can you imagine the adrenaline? He runs back upstairs and he has the coats.

Irene Stern Frielich: 13:00

So when they ultimately escape the next morning or that following morning to Holland, all they have is their pajamas, their coats and my grandfather has 20 Deutsche Mark in his coat pocket. That’s all they have. They had a ride in a limousine, so a helpful neighbor got them a friendly limo driver who drove them to a place on the border that my grandfather had identified. They got out there. I won’t get into all the details. It’s very dramatic, but they eventually ran across the border when the gendarme, like the local policeman on duty at the border crossing, left for 15 minutes before the replacement came at lunchtime and they ran across the border at that point.

Julie Hilsen: 13:46

Wow, I mean, it’s just like a movie and the idea that your grandfather had the, the awareness that with something in him, moved him to do the things he did. And so many, so many survivors and so many Jewish families have stories that can identify with this, like my, my, my grandmother-in-law. Her mom came over from Russia and she came over as a teenager. But this was, this was when things just started to get bad and they could only send over her to live with her uncle in New York City because things were getting crazy and she didn’t even speak English, and so it was actually my grandmother-in-law’s mother who didn’t speak English. So it’s like two generations from who I met. But the stories, you know, it’s just like, wow, you know, it’s just like these people are so courageous in leaving everything that they knew, and the stories are just.

Irene Stern Frielich: 14:56

They’re all so important. Each and every story is so important and important. Um, hopefully, we’ll be able to keep all of our family stories alive through the generations.

Julie Hilsen: 15:06

So we have them and then that was one of the things that I just was touched by how your son, josh, has been so supportive of going over to germany with you and and taking that trip that your father was like I would never go to Germany. And even the UPS geyser outfits were just something your grandfather and the state highway patrolman, I think it was he’s like, oh, these are evil men, you know, because they dressed in those brown uniforms like the German soldiers. It was something your dad couldn’t even like. Any association was just like, ah. And then you faced it Like you went and you brought your family to help process these things and and visit the visit that store, even though it was just demolished from the war. But gosh, so I mean, I’ve been reading, I read your book in like spurts and so just to give the listeners a little like cliff note with the whole idea that they went into hiding and then they, they ended up in the Netherlands, right, your, your, your father, Walter, and his grandmother and his mother.

Reunion With Dutch Rescuers and Synagogue

Irene Stern Frielich: 16:19

Yes.

Julie Hilsen: 16:20

And so they had the money to pay the farmer to get put in a hiding. Would you want to talk a little bit about that and your visit there to the farmhouse, because it’s just so magical.

Irene Stern Frielich: 16:33

You know, when I think about the most amazing moments of my life, like probably 10 of the top 20 are on this trip. It was one thing after another. So I knew that my father was in hiding on the Lansink farm. Their name is L-A-N-S-I-N-K. The Lansink farmer family, and I had the name of the town, very small farm town that it was in, and I thought I’ll never find this family. But I did. That’s a whole other story.

Irene Stern Frielich: 17:07

I did, I was reunited with this family and my father had been in touch with them until he died. So until 1994, he was in touch with them and I had their information, but I couldn’t communicate with them because they didn’t speak English and I didn’t speak Dutch. But somebody reconnected us and I like to say reunited our families, and so I got to meet the man whose father and grandfather had hidden my family and he knew my father right. So because my father went there in 1991. So I got to meet Jan Lansink and he took me back to the home that he no longer lived in. But another family lived there and they were expecting us, this other family, were all waiting in their living room for us to arrive and I was with my son Josh, my husband, my brother and my sister-in-law, okay, and they said to us would you like to see the attic now? And I had no idea this was even a remote possibility, nevermind just being on this farm.

Irene Stern Frielich: 18:13

So we went up into the attic and saw the exact space, the space where they were hidden. We stood, you know where they were for two and a half years, up in this attic which had since been the home, had been re-renovated, right, but it was still this same space. It was just absolutely remarkable. So that’s where my father, his mother and grandmother had arrived on October 3, 1942, not knowing the family whose home they were coming to, the family, the farmer family, not really, I think, not knowing really what was, how serious this was, how serious this was, and together they made a hiding space and they created a false closet, a false door, like all these levels of protection, until you finally get to their hiding space. Thank goodness, because there were a number of times where they were almost found out, which would have been certain death for everybody.

Julie Hilsen: 19:16

Yeah yeah, it was serious, because I mean you wrote about how the German soldiers would. The Nazis would just show up. I mean, just do random showing, you know, like pop-ins. And oh my gosh, that one where the one soldier was sympathetic and he stood in front of the other one and said that the farmer’s wife was indecent. He stood in front of the other one and said that the farmer’s wife was indecent and you guys were, or they were, your father’s mom and grandmother were able to get into the hiding spot in time. It was just like, oh my God.

Irene Stern Frielich: 19:48

Yeah, and that was a great example of a member. That tall policeman was a member of the Dutch resistance and so he was doing, you know, whatever he was doing. I don’t even know details and I don’t know his name. I would love to find out his name but yeah, so he was going to the farms and the places where he knew people were hiding to protect them in this same kind of way, because the second policeman that was there with him would not have been so nice.

Julie Hilsen: 20:18

So the Dutch resistance that was there with him would not have been so nice. So the Dutch resistance that was a thing.

Irene Stern Frielich: 20:23

The Dutch resistance was amazing, especially in this part of the country where they were more in the farmland as opposed to like in the Amsterdam area. That’s usually what we hear about the Anne Frank story. So actually something like 38% of Jews in hiding in this part of the country survived, as opposed to less than 20% in.

Julie Hilsen: 20:46

Amsterdam. It sort of makes sense because there’s more space, there’s more opportunities.

Irene Stern Frielich: 20:51

There’s more food, in a way because some of the farms had more food than in the city, where you totally rely on the food coupons the chain.

Julie Hilsen: 21:02

yeah, it’s. It’s amazing how many, um, really difficult situations center around food and lack of food and and money and abundance, and you know and people are put into a scarcity mindset that the horrific things that can happen, it’s just, you know, it’s just really important. If you have enough to share, that you do Right. Right, you don’t know, you don’t know someone’s tipping point and that’s part of compassion, right, like, wow, like wow. And then would you like to talk a little bit about how the synagogue was, was spared in that story? I just, I just want to pepper in little magical stories that struck me as just like such, you know, such wisdom, these people to do what they did. So, if you want to share, that one?

Irene Stern Frielich: 21:58

Yeah, I’d be happy to so and I’m going to preface that with you. Know, my father told a bunch of stories on his hour and 20 minute video and every story he told, if I was going to include it in the book, I had to vet it right. So I researched every story. So this story is probably not quite accurate and I do state that in the book, but it’s my father’s memory. That’s also really interesting. I think he was so moved by whatever happened that he wanted to remember it a certain way and that’s what comes across to you. So it’s like these memories versus facts are all intertwined in a way.

Irene Stern Frielich: 22:39

So what my father says is that the synagogue in the town that they were living in in Holland before they went to hiding and then after they came out of hiding which is a beautiful, beautiful synagogue, that it had been spared because it was a historic building, and that the Allied forces were told and Germany was told you can’t destroy this building because it’s a significant building, and that the Allied forces were told and Germany was told you can’t destroy this building because it’s a significant building. That’s a beautiful story, and what I’ve been told is that’s ridiculous in a way because first of all, the aim wasn’t so good back then and a lot of times the Allied forces mistakenly hit, you know, the wrong place, just the totally wrong place. So it could have easily been hit by mistake anyway. So but it was used instead as like a prison. So there was a particular place in what is now the cafeteria that was a prison with very small cells that you could barely stand up in, and the Nazis would hold prisoners there for a while. So you know, thankfully that building was spared.

Irene Stern Frielich: 23:54

I’ve been there. On every trip I go, I go in that building. I attended services there one Saturday morning. It was just a beautiful experience. Josh read from the Torah.

Julie Hilsen: 24:05

He did the blessing, the Torah yeah, it’s so special.

Irene Stern Frielich: 24:13

My father was with me through the whole story, but that was one of the moments that I most felt his presence in that room, because I also know that that space to my father, which is where he went to Hebrew school for a couple of years to learn to become a bar mitzvah himself. I knew that this was a really special place to him, based on his video. So there’s just so many levels to it and, yeah, that was a very meaningful moment.

Julie Hilsen: 24:42

And the whole. Josh represents the new generation. It can help us complete processing all this as much as we can, and the whole idea that he’s youth, he’s the future and it’s testimony to, to the survival of, of goodness and humanity.

Irene Stern Frielich: 25:04

like you know, it’s uh the continuity, the continuity it’s so beautiful and it’s also interesting that, as a third generation survivor, his perspective is different than mine. So I didn’t realize that in the beginning and it was great having these really meaningful conversations with him about how he experienced the same thing that I experienced in a very different way. So I learned a lot about the next generation and how they they don’t have as much of this inherited trauma, thank goodness, thank goodness. So that was that made me feel really much better, you know and you’ve been so brave facing it.

Julie Hilsen: 25:53

I mean, it’s just, it’s just amazing. So I just I know your, your book deserved that award and I think there’ll be many more. Thank you. Thank you so cool. And then I just do. You, do you feel like you’d like to share anything about how, going through this whole experience visiting several times, going back for the day of remembrance, and you, you know how. How has this changed? I know you’ve. You’ve changed so much since, since 2017, when you opened up this Pandora’s box. But if you were to to share with the listeners or your readers any you know things about how your worldview has changed, or your perspective and and just like you’re a different person, but can you have you reflected on on exactly what that means to you and and how you show up every day?

Irene Stern Frielich: 26:51

It. It has changed me so much. Um is all I can say, I don’t really have the words for it, but I never thought about German people as being individual people before. My father taught me to think of German people, even the German people of you know of the today, when he was alive. Um as the enemy, and it took me a lot of this was the courage part.

Irene Stern Frielich: 27:20

It took a lot of courage for me to even reach out to, for example, the descendant of the man who Aryanized my family’s store, and that means that the Jewish people were all forced to sell or give away their stores, sell them at a very reduced rate, and so the man who currently owns that store that’s been rebuilt after the war is the descendant of the man who Aryanized the store from my family, and I wanted to have a conversation with him. I’m not mad at him, I don’t hold any grudges against him. With him, I’m not mad at him, I don’t hold any grudges against him. And I sought him out and I was able to sit down in another of the most amazing moments of my life and have a one hour conversation with him. That was life-changing, because what I came to realize in a visceral way is that he’s a person just like me. He wants the same things I want. He wants, you know, peace in the world.

Irene Stern Frielich: 28:21

He, um, he’s a good person. He is um, um, um upset about what happened during the war. I mean, the war was bad for everybody, really for everybody, and I never understood that really before. So he helped me see that. So just one of my big takeaways is just sit down for coffee literally for coffee or tea with somebody who you think is different than you, because and it’s so important today more than ever, because we’re going to find that we have so much more in common than not, and if we work from that, that place of what we have in common, and that we want, you know, a good earth for our children, I don’t think anybody’s going to argue that maybe that’s a good place we can start at, to start mending all these terrible rifts and worse that have been created in the world, especially recently.

Julie Hilsen: 29:22

Yeah, this whole idea of separation, it’s an illusion. We’re all one mass consciousness, like we’re all one together. And yeah, you, actually I stopped watching the news because it’s like they were always trying to say this is bad and this is good, and it was. I felt like I was getting set up in these dichotomies and, like you said, if you really sit down with somebody and talk to them, you can really find common ground. But that doesn’t sell viewership. You know, they say. You know so, um, I think, so much of our, our knowledge, what used to be based on what was presented to us and now we have the chance to get firsthand knowledge and and go there like I, I just think that they’re the. The myth of separation and the illusion of of that we’re, we’re less than one, is, um, something that could really help humanity if we could wrap our heads around the idea that you know you’re never alone and everyone’s connected and um, and we don’t need to polarize ourselves.

Irene Stern Frielich: 30:34

Yes, it’s not black and white. The world is not black and white and, like you say on the news, that’s the illusion that they are trying to create and a lot of people are trying to create, but it’s not like that. It’s not.

Julie Hilsen: 30:47

So yes, a million thousand trillion times, yes, A million thousand trillion times, yes, and I would like to think that we could rebuild and regain trust and hope, and there’s been so many things that we can overcome, but love will be the balm that soothes it. I’m not talking romantic love, I’m talking about compassion, I’m talking about acceptance and just being true, being true to how you feel, and so then you can let someone else be true and you can figure out, like you said, the common ground. It’s just so lovely, irene. I really appreciate that perspective.

Irene Stern Frielich: 31:28

And I talk about that. I do talks all over about my father’s story. I actually like to say that I do talks with my father because I use the actual audio from his videos.

Julie Hilsen: 31:40

Oh, that’s so cool.

Irene Stern Frielich: 31:41

Yeah. So he and I tell his story and I use the tagline as Shattered Stars the power of courage, compassion and kindness, and I talk at the beginning and end about how we all can use those attributes to make this world a better place. And you know, my father’s story is just an example of how 18 individuals did that. They demonstrated courage, compassion and kindness to help my family survive. We can do the same in this world, whatever that’s going to look like. It’s so important.

Julie Hilsen: 32:15

It’s so important and you know it’s like the whole. What I loved about the whole story was, okay, you know it’s awful situation, but they, they asked for help, they, they planned people showed up and you know it’s like, it’s like this give and go of of, you know, people, humanity, supporting each other and it’s just such an inspirational story and it’s so happy. And you know, I think you should release any guilt that it’s sat in your, in the box, in whatever you know, you know you had your, your, your father’s, you know the pictures and his, the little um coins that he made with a, with a symbol of zionism on them. It’s just beautiful, um, that it was the right time when you did it, because you had time to dive into it, you had the resources, like it was divine timing and guided. So you know, I don’t think you wasted any time. You needed to go through what you needed to go through to get and give everything you gave to this.

Julie Hilsen: 33:21

It’s just really your energy and it is so wonderful and I’m sure it took years off your life that not years off your life, but added years to your life that you were able to process this and you didn’t have this, this cloud above you that you didn’t even understand what it was like. You said you had this, you had this feeling, there was this. You felt like you had to produce, you had to show yourself because there was something you knew there was something under the rug, you knew there was something that needed to be fixed, but, intuitively, you just took action and so it’s just such an inspiring story. Your dad and you, you can’t discount all the hours and resources you’ve dedicated to this.

Irene Stern Frielich: 34:02

Yeah, well, thank you, yeah, and I had to do it. To me it wasn’t a choice, not that I had to write the book, but that I had to go on these trips. Then I had to write the book because the most amazing things kept happening to me that I couldn’t have imagined. They just kept showering down on me and it was almost like a sign, like I just had to write it. I didn’t have a choice. I didn’t want to write it, it had to be written. So here it is.

Julie Hilsen: 34:31

Yeah, and to me, like the cherry trees showing up, those were so powerful. The imagery is the cherry trees. I was just like in life you get these affirmations, you get these synchronicities and that’s part of the magic of life is being aware and acknowledging them and the people that showed up, even at the school and the graveyard you went to. It’s just. I encourage everyone you know to read this story because it’s just a beautiful testament.

Upcoming Events and Contact Information

Julie Hilsen: 35:04

Was there anything else you wanted to share? Do you have a website where you talk about where you’re going to speak next, or how do people follow what you’re up to?

Irene Stern Frielich: 35:13

Yeah, so my website is wwwshatteredstarsorg Great, and on it lists all the upcoming events. I don’t have a time on all the events because I’m not being as specific as all that, but anybody can feel free to reach out to me on the contact page for more information.

Julie Hilsen: 35:37

Excellent. Well, thank you for being on Life of Love.

Irene Stern Frielich: 35:39

It’s been such a joy. Thank you so much for having me, Julie.