Julie Hilsen: 0:30

Relationships and Innate Greatness Discovery

Life of Love with Julie Hilsen Even on the hard days and easy days, you know we take them as they come and today is a really, really special opportunity to connect with this dear soul. He has been sharing some wonderful things with me in the pre-interview and I’m just really delighted to introduce him. Thank you everyone for tuning in again and for sharing these episodes. It means so much and you know, when something sparked in you and you share it, you continue the grid of sparking and paying it forward. So I’m just honored to be part of the loop and be with everyone who’s in the spiritual journey or even just curious. We’re here to help. So, gosh, marcus Aurelius Higgs is our guest this week and he is a. He’s a beacon of human relationships and and growth and he’s had a long career of of being helpful and showing up, so he’s known as a heroic life coach. I know it’s uncomfortable to talk about someone when they’re looking right at you.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 1:38

I’m just remembering this stuff ‘m like, oh yeah, no, that is me, thank you, it’s. It’s affirming my identity that I put out there, and it’s like live into it.

Julie Hilsen: 1:46

So right, yes, and so like you’ve been working with pre-teens and helping them transform their their lives through personal growth and strengthening family connections and just really great stuff about you know how you can learn to be a better human through your relationships. So I was really excited to bring forth your message and I welcome you with open arms to Life of Love. I can’t think of a better topic.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 2:14

Truly Thank you. Thank you for sharing your platform, for sharing your smile, for sharing your spirit before this call, even during the back and forth emails, thank you for the elements of your personality there. We had our silly puns in there, yeah.

Julie Hilsen: 2:31

Yes, we had some fun puns For sure, for sure, I had to change my, we had to move our appointment up, and he graciously said yes, and it was like, yeah, I have a dentist appointment and it’s at 2 30 and I have to laugh because he said, well, there’s a pun in there 2 30 and I was like, oh, that is next level how many times you have a dentist appointment and then 2, 30 in there.

Julie Hilsen: 3:10

I was like oh man, you got to do it and I was so happy you shared that with me, because sometimes my family is like how do you come up with these so quick? And I’m like I’m wondering if there’s a pun angel that helps me come up with these zippy puns. And then when you said that, I was like maybe that’s a real thing. What do you think?

M. Aurelius Higgs: 3:39

you think? I do think life happens and we give it meaning. Yet you can develop intuition. I think intuition is a skill. You find what you’re looking for and if you are looking for the joy in the moment or you’re looking for the creativity with words, I think it can come to you, I say, more easily. But it’s a skill, it’s a muscle. If you develop being punny, yeah, you’re going to find humor in it.

Julie Hilsen: 4:00

I know my dad is really good at it too, so I think that’s a way I honor my father is to come up with funny puns or tell him. I was at the grocery store the other day and I don’t even know why the produce guy said it, but I was like, oh, they have these Athena cantaloupes and they’re so delicious, like I love when the Athenas are in season. And I was like, oh man, these are great. And he’s like, um, what would your honey do if you cantaloupe?

M. Aurelius Higgs: 4:31

no, he totally meant to do that, right. Yeah, what would your honey do if you candy lope?

Julie Hilsen: 4:35

oh yeah, yeah and I was like um, you see me like, and it’s so funny I guess it’s part of the energy you put out is is what comes back to you. Like you said, you become a transmitter, you’re, you’re receiving in your and your um you are literally a messenger, and that’s what an angel is.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 4:55

A messenger, yeah.

Julie Hilsen: 4:56

I love that.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 4:59

I’m a lover of words and transmit. Mit comes from the same as messenger or missionary. It means to send.

Julie Hilsen: 5:11

Well, I hope we can send parents like hope and inspiration, because we’re talking about preteens today and and the challenges with being, you know, like navigating the transitions between the child and and the identity that’s forming as the young adult, and so I just I adore this time and you know it’s so awkward, it’s so raw, like things can swirl out of control really fast. So you’ve been in this space and you’ve been helping and I was on your website and it’s such a great resource, but would you share your lens of relationships bringing forth intimate greatness or innate greatness? I’m sorry, let me restate that because I want to make it clear.

Julie Hilsen: 6:06

Can you share how the lens of relationships help bring forth innate greatness in humans and how can we start to model that for our kids? Because I think, if you it’s all about, like you said, your intention, it’s like what you’re looking for is what’s going to show up. So if you show up, as I’m going to bring forth greatness in my child through the lens of our relationship, like wow, but how did you come about that? It’s so cool yeah, wow, I.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 6:36

I love whenever you put a good word out there and then it comes back to you and it’s like yeah, I never thought about it like that. To answer you, the preteen years are, I call the first identity breaking years and life is continually about breaking our identity that we might put it back together so we can answer the question who are? I am Right that we might put it back together so we can answer the question who are? I am right. In ancient times, at the Delby, they would say know thyself and you’ll understand the secrets of gods and men. And the way you know yourself is through. The breaking. Life breaks us all, and then some are made stronger in the broken places.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 7:11

Now, man, a Rumi quote just came to mind. It said if we avoid everything that rubs us the wrong way, however, will we shine. And what it is is at this first identity breaking up all of our kids. If we stay present and we know how to help ensure them through it, knowing what to expect and how to meet them and support them in their needs, we can bring forth, as we said, their innate greatness. I believe there’s greatness in there. I believe there’s beauty in there.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 7:41

As a teacher, we create the context for learning to take place. So we create the context for them to express themselves and in doing that, we can get into it. As we get into the framework where you’re speaking to their virtues and values, that are in there with them and you’re establishing that identity. It all starts with a strong identity. So that’s the work that I do. And I say that’s the work that I do, but I think that is what human development is. I just focus on this age. I say what I do is it is life coaching and one-to-one personal development, but I’m using the thing that’s most relevant to the parent, which is your child.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 8:21

I say what I do is it is life coaching and one-to-one personal development, but I’m using the thing that’s most relevant to the parent, which is your child. The relationship with our child, yeah.

Julie Hilsen: 8:27

And life is about relationships, right? Hey, my mom is over here, right when I said that she’s like I’m so proud of my boy.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 8:39

He’s such a good kid. She’s smiling and she knows I’m on a podcast. She’s like I’m so proud of my boy. He’s such a good kid, she’s smiling and she knows I’m on a podcast, she’s like it’s all right, it’s okay it’s life of love.

Julie Hilsen: 8:45

We go with the flow. It’s like love, love. That is so crazy that you said that those were the words, because my next thing that I was going to talk to you about was you know what are the core values that drive deeper relationships? Like, do you see a trend? Like I mean, if you’re going to focus on, you could say values, and it seems like this big thing out in the sky, but do you?

Julie Hilsen: 9:03

see a trend of the core values that you could like use as a little bit of a roadmap or a cheat sheet, just so that people can like sort of start exploring around in there.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 9:15

Sure, sure To make it actionable right. So there’s BIA. If your audience is not familiar, I’ll explain it real quick. Virtues in Action.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 9:24

This comes from positive psychology and these are actually 24 characteristic traits that are with all people, all religions, all cultures. It’s from ancient knowledge, but to leave in modern day science, things such as bravery, leadership, gratitude we talked about earlier perseverance and so on. So those are virtues. And really, what virtues are? Virtues are things that work towards the well-being of society or the well-being of an individual. They work towards well-being Right Now. Then there are values.

Building Trust in Adolescence

M. Aurelius Higgs: 9:57

Val values are what’s important to you. Every entity, every person, everything has a value like. When I say a value, I mean what’s important to them. For some people it’s finances, other people it might be family, might be their faith. Now, when you meet someone, I’m constantly virtue spotting, I’m looking for your virtues and then I couple that with what’s important to you, your values. I’m speaking to that, which means I’m cultivating it, I’m nurturing it. In our interaction, I’m actively saying, yeah, this is what I’m noticing, because people move towards your expectations and that’s what I say. Because people move towards your expectations and that’s what I say. I see you, your identity, and I’m making space for it, for your expression, and that’s how it starts, with a strong identity, because I’ve seen my identity, I’m secure in it, I’m stable with it and I know that I make space for your identity.

Julie Hilsen: 10:55

And I know that I make space for your identity. Yeah, I love that because you do. You have to go into yourself and say, well, where am I coming from? So that you understand that. That’s part of this transition is to test their identity, to to explore different options and knowing that it’s OK and you know being there to support them. But then I love the idea that you have your virtues and your values are setting boundaries for that child, Because, whoa, I learned early on as a parent, like if. I didn’t set boundaries.

Julie Hilsen: 11:43

It was going to get so messy, because then I might get like you can ignore something for so long and then you’re just going to like I shouldn’t say your, I would like just lose it and it would be over like a stupid thing, like, yeah, even, like it didn’t even matter to my value system. It’s just that I had ignored my boundaries around my values and my self-respect for so long that I was like, well, what did you? Why would you do that? Overreaction to you know? Just something a kid might do.

Julie Hilsen: 12:15

Because because the boundaries weren’t there and you know how easy is it to like you always talk about when you’re in the airplane and the pilot? The pilot has the course and it’s little adjustments over the course of the flight, versus you don’t go the wrong direction for 200 miles and then cut back Like you just make little adjustments so you’re not wasting gas, you’re not wasting your time, you’re not, you know, frying out your nervous system trying to. You know, if you ignore something, recovering is so much harder. So I love these tidbits of the foundation to keep you on course.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 12:59

To extend your metaphor or to add something that if I could add some more. Of course, yeah, In order to keep course, you have to know where you’re going, have a clear destination and, that said, like parents, our clear destination is interdependence. That’s what we spoke about earlier. So our kids they were born dependent or dependent on us to meet their needs. And then they eventually move to that point You’ve experienced it twice where they have to gain their independence to understand how they might meet their own needs. But then the final form of what we have in society is interdependence, that is, I’m capable of meeting my needs and I will contribute to help you meet yours, Like I will take care of me to be in service to you if you can take care of you, to be in service to me. And interdependence is what we’re leading to Now. If that’s our final destination, we just have to keep on making those course corrections through those adolescent years.

Julie Hilsen: 14:01

Yeah, and like in your website, it’s so clear. It’s like the breaking of identity, the trust. I’m going from memory this isn’t in my notes the trust issues, and then the emotional, like roller coasters of of what the child is going through, and you know it’s. It’s such a tender time and it’s such an opportunity to share, like when I was. You know, it’s not to be like when I was your age, but just be like, yeah, something I struggled with was you know I used to break out and have huge pimples all over.

Julie Hilsen: 14:36

You know, like I get it, get it like you know, your hormones are going crazy and my older son was like going through his his time of a big hormones. My younger son would be like mom, it’s the hormones, okay, and we just be like we just gotta ride this out because it’s just the hormone, or harmonies he called themies, and then you go harmony and it’s close to harmony. We’ll get back to harmony. It’s just the, it’s just the hormonies.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 15:03

A little bit of discord at the moment, or just a little off tune. That’s where you get jazz from man, that’s where it gets interesting. You know, you got to throw something in there to throw them off.

Julie Hilsen: 15:15

You got to perk up the ears and them off. You got to perk up the ears and it’s just such a beautiful journey. And would you shine some light on the trust part, like how can you build trust in your preteen and maintain it that you know they know that you’re not judging them because everybody’s judging them. They’re getting grades, they’re trying. You know some kids are trying to get into a good high school and you know, in middle school is when, like, grades start to count and you start there’s a lot of comparison.

Julie Hilsen: 15:40

It’s just really hard. Their voices are cracking.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 15:43

There’s just so much going on the hormones, the highs feel high and the lows feel lower. And that’s actually plus what they’re doing in adolescence, if you remember. What the role or the purpose of adolescence is is so that they can try out new things. They can take risks Healthy risks can be right To figure out who they are. And in doing that that, they have to be more sensitive to what is, see if it’s safe, to see if it’s secure, and so on. So you want heightened hormones or not hormones? You want heightened sensitivity and awareness of emotions, because emotions tell us what to pursue and they tell us, they give us an indication of what’s our internal state to our external. So so you want heightened hormones. So it makes sense. It’s like, yeah, I get it. And when you explain that to a person, they’re finding like it’s not just hormones and a write-off. It’s like no, it is a dump of dopamine for a reason, and this is the reason why.

Julie Hilsen: 16:55

And you know, we’re just designed so perfectly.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 17:00

Everything has a reason yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. To trust how do we build trust ideally? If you do it right, that’s a high bar to measure. First of all, you will not do it perfect. I know that for sure. You will do it. There will be bumps and bruises along the way and that actually adds to the growth.

Julie Hilsen: 17:24

That’s what I will say, yeah, it gives compassion right. You could say, my gosh, I messed up so bad and I’ll even say it to my 21-year-old. I’ll be like I can’t believe that we used to do this. You didn’t know what you didn’t know. Yeah, we didn’t know, we didn’t know, and it’s like, but you know, everything works out because there’s this foundation of love and you come back to you know what, what’s best, what’s best for you, what’s best for our family, what are our values? But yeah, and then you look at blended families too, like step parents and like that there’s no, like there’s no three, four, five and six year old bonding time to like fall back on usually if, if the family’s been blended, when they’re in this state, in this phase, and gosh, I, I just have such um empathy for blended families and trying to get through every day with these challenges and to build trust in a short amount of time. And you know, is it intuition.

Julie Hilsen: 18:27

Can you use those hormones to benefit you when you’re in a situation like that? Have you seen that go both ways?

M. Aurelius Higgs: 18:35

You touched on two things in regards to trust. Trust has three characteristics or three pillars. First is well, one of them is rather well-being. I have to know that you’re acting for my well-being. I won’t trust you unless I know that, yeah, what you’re doing is actually for my well-being. So I love how you said with you and your son, you’re just like, yeah, you have to come back to that loving space. The second thing about trust is it has to start with truth. You have to know that this person is being authentic, right, they’re not being deceptive or they’re not lying, so they’re telling the truth. There’s well-being there. And then the third is it makes sense.

Julie Hilsen: 19:23

Even if they don’t like it. You don’t have to be popular. You never said in here as long as you’re a best friend or as long as they’re happy all the time. I didn’t hear any of that, so let’s break that paradigm that everything has to be happy and best friendly.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 19:37

No, I won’t call it tough love, but some rules and regulations are there in place to say, well, we need an understanding of what happens if the rules and regulations are there to keep us in alignment with our values and then if we go out of them, what follows? That’s consequence, the natural following of something means with the following consequence that said, if these rules make sense and they’re not just arbitrary, that can build trust and that’s a whole deeper idea.

Julie Hilsen: 20:10

So you’re saying, giving a child a consequence, saying hey, you made this choice and this is your consequence, that can actually build trust because then they know that you’re going to be consistent and that you care enough to give them a consequence.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 20:26

I’ll give you one deeper, julie.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 20:28

We’re trying to move towards autonomy and there is an approach to parenting called autonomy supportive parenting, and really one way to build trust is by giving trust to the kid to say I trust you in being autonomous and I support you in that.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 20:44

So let’s figure out these rules and consequences together. Now, as the parent, you still set the tone, you set the vibe, you’re the adult in the room. But when you invite them into the process because, remember, when you invite them into the process because remember, zero to, let’s say, eight, nine, ten you’re the manager. You’re setting up playdates, you are keeping them safe, in a sense, or you’re keeping them secure, soothed and so on. But now you’re moving towards the guide on the side, you’re moving to the coaching role and in order to move into the coaching role, you have to allow space for them to be autonomous and support them in that autonomy. Now, that looks different for each child, yeah, but it’s still with the intention. I need you to try this on your own and I need you to fall, and this is what happens when people fall and it’s okay.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 21:32

It’s okay to fall short well, it’s part of the process.

Julie Hilsen: 21:35

Yeah, that’s how you get up and you shine. Like you said, you can’t shine unless you get a little roughed up.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 21:43

And to your point about blended families yeah, trust is built over time. There are ways to amplify it or speed it up. I mean, it depends on the context. Just like plants or things that grow, you need time. You need time for things to grow.

Julie Hilsen: 22:01

Yeah, and it’s worth it. I mean, it’s not random if somebody’s in your field, and so I’m just cheering for everyone who’s struggling with building trust with a child and I’m just letting you know from my heart that it’s worth it. It’s worth it because it will make your family stronger, it’ll make your community stronger, it makes our world a better place to have these relationships. And and if a child hasn’t been used to having a strong relationship for whatever reason maybe there was conflict um, what an opportunity to show them what could be. And um, it like this kind of thing changes the world. I don’t I’m not minimizing the role of these relationships at all.

Julie Hilsen: 22:49

It’s not just to get through your life easier or to have you know get to your the next step. This is, this is about enriching our world. It’s so exciting.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 23:01

You know I say in the work that I do it is about keeping you integrated or keeping you together, keeping your stuff together. Stuff is not necessarily the S word I use, keeping your stuff together and in doing so, other people or other things may go waywardly, but if you keep yourself together and you’re consistent in your present, that’s what you’re asked to do and that’s how you set the tone. You are a trustworthy present parent, because, I don’t know, it could be two weeks, it could be two years, it could be two decades, but as long as you are integrated in keeping your stuff together and you will be thrown off, course you reach your equilibrium, but what you’re asked to do is you’re asked to keep your stuff together and you will be thrown off. Course you reach your equilibrium, but what you’re asked to do is you’re asked to keep your stuff together.

Parenting Workshop and Relationship Building

Julie Hilsen: 23:49

So, yeah, I work with the individual first to set the tone and that’s how you become a better human is is knowing yourself and getting getting yourself in alignment and knowing when your buttons might be getting pushed and finding some resource so that you can keep it together. And, um, I, I, I can relate. There’s been times where I’m like I give up.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 24:11

You win, like I’m not staying in this anymore like this is I can’t.

Julie Hilsen: 24:16

This isn’t good for me, I’m not gonna. I’m not gonna fight this fight. It doesn’t make any sense pick and choose your battles sometimes it’s just like okay and um, it’s. You know, when you, when you un-un-turn or un-unwind that hairball and you just say, you know, what’s most important is I love you no matter what and love is at the core you are gonna.

Julie Hilsen: 24:44

You’re gonna have consequences if you know like I might not make a delicious dinner for you if you stress me out from fighting, but I still love you that’s not necessarily consequences, but uh, okay, okay it is. It is a result, because I can tell you it’s a result cooking is not good when she’s upset a little bit too more too salty or a little overcooked.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 25:05

But it’s a result. Julie’s cooking is not good when she’s upset A little bit too salty or a little overcooked.

Julie Hilsen: 25:10

Yeah, my goodness it is, it’s such a lens to grow yourself through your children? And who knows how to push your buttons better than someone who shares your DNA?

M. Aurelius Higgs: 25:23

They say the person who knows your insecurities the most is yourself. The person who knows it’s the second best is your children.

Julie Hilsen: 25:30

Is your children.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 25:33

Oh man, that’s for sure.

Julie Hilsen: 25:36

It’s so beautiful. Well, guys, we’re coming up on our end of our time here today, but I wanted you to be able to share. You have lots of things coming and this is going to be published like mid-fall, so in relation to that, where will you be with your website and what you have coming down the pipe? I’m excited for you to share.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 25:56

Yeah, there are two workshops I’m working on right now. So I do have the show up framework, which is a year long course in three phases. The first three months are information, after that it’s implementation for the next three months and then continued support for the whole year so you can be a part of the community. And in the show up framework we have, it starts with a strong identity. I’m working with the parent to establish their identity with their virtues and values.

Cultivating Family Relationships and Wisdom

M. Aurelius Higgs: 26:26

H is holding space for collaboration strategies and frameworks, in which kids often say what’s wrong with me when they’re experiencing breaking. But it’s like hey, hey, nothing’s wrong with you. You’re growing up Collaboratively, solve this problem. And then O is opening up communication. Quality of your communication is directly related to the quality of your life. So that’s your ability to talk with others and your ability to talk with yourself, yeah. And then W is wonder and explore this world together. It’s called project-based living. It means doing long, hard things, self-directed, for a long time, and you’re doing it with your kids, so you have something to talk about. And then UP is unveiling your potential.

Julie Hilsen: 27:13

UP is what Unlimited potential UP unveil your potential.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 27:18

It’s celebrating. We don’t celebrate enough, so it means gathering together to honor.

Julie Hilsen: 27:24

And I love that part of curiosity. Like anyone who listens to my show, I’m always talking about be curious, get your innocence back, and what? A better way to remember how it used to be than to encourage your kids to be curious and live it through their eyes a little bit and just get it that is. It’s just such a great thing, because sometimes we want to spend quality time with our children and our family, but we’re really not sure what to do.

Julie Hilsen: 27:52

So this is a really nice I mean game night’s awesome. You know, picking a movie is that’s not really family time, that’s just coexisting.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 28:02

So you know it could be the adventures you could. So it could be passive, you could. So it could be passive, right, just watching a movie, but then you could make it active by actually having conversation about characters and what it actually means. The beautiful thing about learning I am an educator in the background bring it back to relevancy to the person, so like what’s important for them, but then also making it relevant to say how is this going to help you? What actions are you going to take based on this? And then also giving them an insight into you, because kids are trying to learn about the world. Talk about who you were when you were their age, what you did and what you went through might be more likely to say mom, you know this, this is what happened.

Julie Hilsen: 28:47

Or dad, you know I’m struggling with this and just to be there. Be there for them Because I think, more than anything, they just need to know that they have a soft landing, because the world can be so cold and and so reactive that you know, just the intention of your home being a safe place and a place of respect and mutual admiration. But you know, like that line of I’m not your best friend but I’m unconditionally loving of you.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 29:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Julie Hilsen: 29:19

It’s a line.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 29:21

They know what to expect. Because, again, you’re a trustworthy present parent and I say I respect the wisdom of the parent. In that it’s going to be expressed many different ways. I will share with you what I’ve seen work and as I get to know your values. I can help you give perspective for what’s in alignment with you, and you know I respect your wisdom. Everything that I speak to you about, how you do it with the kid, I interact with you the same way.

Julie Hilsen: 29:52

It’s a dynamic and this isn’t something you just passively watch and learn. This is an interactive course, so I can feel that what a life-changing thing. And, you know, maybe it’ll change all the relationships in your life, not just your children.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 30:10

Back to what you were saying, though, about yeah, actually, actually, yeah, the whole point is to change the way you show up in the world, and then, as you relate with the world, you’ll see it through a new lens.

Julie Hilsen: 30:22

Well, it’s just so beautiful new lens, that’s just so beautiful.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 30:25

I was going to say on the site there’ll be if this is a release in the fall to two workshops I’m working on is mapping out your family’s virtues and values, so it’s collective identity, right? People like us do things like this. That’s what culture is, so it’s mapping out your family culture. And then the second one is how to nurture your child’s potential in the digital age, because the digital age is actually. There are particular problems for this generation we noticed since 2020. And, using insight from the book the Anxious Years or the Anxious Generation, that’s a book worth reading if you’re a parent.

Julie Hilsen: 31:04

Years or the anxious generation. That’s a book worth reading. If you’re a parent, all right. Well, thank you for that tip. I know it’s a definite concern and just being aware, being aware that it’s a thing is huge. So that book sounds like a great resource for navigating it all, thank goodness. Well, thank you so much. This has been such a delight.

M. Aurelius Higgs: 31:23

It’s been a pleasure, julie I, from before you hit record until, I assume, after I beloved your smile and your presence and your aura and, uh, thank you for all this, yeah, thank you.