Julie Hilsen (00:01)
Hello, dear friends, and welcome to another episode of Life of Love, where we gather every Thursday to explore what our life of love looks like today. And I’m excited. Today has been a great connection with this divine soul. He’s a sound healer. He’s a founder of Blue Dragon Healing, healing.net. It’s his website, his major hub for all his work, but he’s gone through this metamorphosis of

of being unsettled, of not knowing what his path is, and then finding serendipitously through travel, this opening of this portal to sound healing. And he’s graciously gonna share. I listened to a sound healing that he has for free on his website earlier today, and it’s genuine and beautiful. So I’m just really excited to bring forth. I know that some of you may have seen, I’ve done a…

few sound baths on my platform. So I feel the power of sound. So I was really excited when Bjorn decided that he wanted to be on my show. And I’m just honored to host you. Thanks, Bjorn, for being here.

Bjorn (01:13)
Thank you, pleasure to be here.

Julie Hilsen (01:15)
Yeah, life of love, you need a lot of different things to support this life of love and to illuminate love. However it shows up, right? Like sometimes love is messy and sometimes love is beautiful and unicorns and rainbows. But a lot of times love is setting boundaries and knowing what can feed your soul. And so one of the things I really loved about your message is connecting to your authenticity and how you help people on that journey.

So yeah, would you be so kind to indulge us on your story about going to Tulum and just the eye-opening, I know it’s a long story, but could you give us highlights and just give the audience a taste of why you were curious and what brought you to this place?

Bjorn (01:58)
Sure.

Sure, sure, Well, so I had developed a couple of chronic health issues in my body. My knees, like when I was traveling, because I traveled around the world for about five years, lived in 15 different countries, I think, give or take. And my knees started getting really, really stiff where if I was sit down for more than even

couple of minutes I would have to like straighten them out just to get some relief in the stiffness that would just come on. It was very uncomfortable. And I had some pretty bad chronic back issues that require me very regular chiropractic care and that would really only help for I get an adjustment and it’d be back to bad within a couple of days.

So I was invited down to Tulum by a friend of mine who went down there and I didn’t have any intention of doing a spiritual exploration when I went there. It was just on my bucket list of places to visit. It was during peak COVID and there was few restrictions there which appealed to me. And it was, yeah, I guess I’m on my bucket list. So I went there and…

friend of mine that was there, he got into like an accident and hurt his toe pretty gruesomely. I mean, it was black and blue, like really, really, really dark black and blue. So pretty much everyone who saw him would say, look at it and be like, you know, your toe is going to toenail is going to fall off, right? So yeah, yeah.

Julie Hilsen (03:52)
Or it was broken,

right? Like usually if it bruises it, there’s a fracture.

Bjorn (03:59)
Well, it was it was black. Let’s put it that way. The whole thing. And so I had just seen his toenail and then I hadn’t seen him for a couple of days and then Thursday of the week rolls around and I just see him Tuesday. And he’s like, look at my toe. I look at his toe. Completely normal, normal color. Nothing fell off. Just like nothing had ever happened.

Julie Hilsen (04:01)
Yeah, gosh.

Bjorn (04:29)
So I asked him more and he had gone to this ceremony, like a shamanic ceremony into Loom and came out like that. And so I decided I wanted to see what this was all about. And so it turned in the light portal. It was called the light portal. And it was the sort of group ceremony where you’d enter and they would smudge you, you know, to cleanse your

or whatever, right? And then there’d be about 15 to 20 people and they would be sitting around the edge, like in a circle while sitting at first. And then the facilitators, there were about four facilitators at the time. They were leading everyone through a series of different modalities, sometimes in a row and sometimes at the same time. So it started with just a group talk and the attention setting and

Julie Hilsen (04:59)
Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (05:26)
we’re opening this light portal to cleanse and, you know, bring in higher energies, all this stuff. And then a meditation that the teacher had brought forward from his lineage. And then they had us get out and do what’s called biodynamic breath work. And so it’s like combining movement with, in this case, strong breathing. So mouth breathing. It’s going activate the sympathetic nervous system and

Julie Hilsen (05:47)
Nice.

Bjorn (05:53)
And then from there, everyone was, we did a lot, think there were a few Qigong moves I recognize now that I’m practicing Qigong regularly. And so then they had us all lay down around the outside and then these four facilitators would take turns playing the drum, chanting, and also going around and doing physical body work on the participants. Like we’re talking like deep tissue, organ release,

type stuff. One of the women there, her name was Ina and she was from this long lineage of Muslim healers. And she was coming around and she stopped at me and started digging her hands digging her hands into different places in my body. And she’s a very tiny woman, but it hurt a lot, you know, very painful, physically painful, that having her dig into these spots like she just

Julie Hilsen (06:24)
Wow.

You knew.

Yeah.

Bjorn (06:50)
find these areas and they would hurt so bad. And everyone says the same thing about her. And, and so she finished and I did everything I could not to scream, but there were all the people that were screaming during this, this thing that was going on. They screaming, going on crying. Right. see, she gets up and I just started laughing and I just surrendered to the laughter. I couldn’t stop laughing. And then other people heard me laughing and they were laughing and

Julie Hilsen (07:03)
Like what is going on?

Release. Yeah.

Bjorn (07:20)
It was, it was a release of some kind. It was enough to peak my curiosity. I want to explore more. then I set up a private session with two of the facilitators from the light portal, you know, Jose. And so then they are a different day came to my apartment. You know, worked on me for like an hour and a half with her hands. And then.

Julie Hilsen (07:47)
Her

talons, it sounds like she has talons. She’s like, rah. Yeah, it’s penetrating.

Bjorn (07:50)
They’re not sharp, but they, they, yeah.

Yes. So she was working on me for like an hour and a half, like on the floor, like on a mattress and she was crawling around poking and doing whatever she does. Right. And of course also quite painful.

And then after she was done, myself, her and Jose, her partner sat and we talked a little bit and she was telling me about the things that she had seen. And, you going into this, I had no shamanic beliefs, no real tangible experiences that I was aware of.

So hearing some of these things sound a little strange to me. She was like, yeah, you’re on your left side, your mother’s side. I found these energies, sadness and this and that. And on your father’s side, I found this fear and this anger and this. And then she’s like, and then I found and she told me about two spirit guides that she’d found. One was a Jaguar and the other was a Native American shaman. And so then.

The next part of the private session was like meet your guides. So Jose would have had with him a plant medicine that’s called hape. You familiar at all with that?

Julie Hilsen (09:13)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I’ve heard about the Ayahuasca, but yeah.

Bjorn (09:19)
So yeah, hape

is like, there are a lot of indigenous cultures that actually will do hape during an ayahuasca ceremony, like at some point. So it’s kind of a complimentary, more of like a plant ally than a, so it has a, a very physical effect on the body because it’s mainly tobacco base, but then there’s other plants mixed in and some psychoactive effects and sometimes

Julie Hilsen (09:29)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (09:48)
And they’re usually made with, if you get it from the right place, made with certain prayers, music, medicine songs, and sometimes there’ll be the ashes from a ceremonial fire, just depends on the hop. But you take it through the nose and. Well, you blow it in, you don’t snort it, you don’t you either blow it in yourself with like a self applicator. I have one here. Let’s Well, doesn’t matter. You blow it in or.

Julie Hilsen (10:03)
Nice. Mm, you snored it.

you

Bjorn (10:18)
If you have a person to serve it to you, there’s a device, it’s called a Tepe. So one person puts it in the other person’s nose and blows into their nose, both nostrils. So I’d never done hot pay before. I had no idea really what to expect.

So he serves me the hot pay.

Julie Hilsen (10:41)
I’m just, I’m sorry. I’ve got to go to, you know, the Jersey Mike commercial with Danny DeVito and he’s hanging over the bacon and he’s got that brass thing coming out of his nose. I wonder if that’s the same thing. It’s a commercial, a Jersey Mike’s commercial that’s on all the time right now, but in my area. But yeah, he’s leaning over the bake, they’re grilling bacon.

And he’s like, love the smell of bacon in the morning. He’s got these two brass trumpet things sticking out of his nose and he’s sniffing in the bacon. I wonder if it’s a connection between that. you haven’t seen, the look on your face, you haven’t seen the commercial.

Bjorn (11:26)
No, I don’t recall that particular commercial.

Julie Hilsen (11:29)
I was like, what is up his nose? This is so weird. And then you mentioned this and it sounds like the same device. Yeah.

Bjorn (11:36)
It is pretty niche. mean,

it mainly comes from the Amazon, like from indigenous tribes, but it’s possible.

Julie Hilsen (11:40)
Yeah.

nothing to do with

Jersey mics or subs or Danny DeVito. Unless Danny DeVito might have gone down to Tulum. Maybe that… Okay, sorry. That’s a squirrel moment. I totally interrupted, but I was like, I’ve got to ask if you’ve seen this. Sorry.

Bjorn (11:50)
Maybe he did. I wouldn’t be surprised.

That’s okay. Okay, so they serve me the hape and I’m sitting there, kind of sitting on my knees. And so then Jose stands up and gets behind me and starts shaking maracas in my ears. And so I can’t think because there’s so much noise from the maracas. So my mind can’t process. And then he starts making these chanting sounds and

Julie Hilsen (12:04)
Yeah.

Bjorn (12:29)
The next thing I know, I’m making chanting sounds and I can’t stop. But it was really uncomfortable though, because it the first time it was like initiating something with me that I was not used to that came like from the very depths of my roots, you know, all the way up through. And so this chanting started coming out of me and then I just got sick on the floor.

I was laying on the floor for hours. I didn’t even want to get up on the couch. I was so dizzy. But the next morning I woke up and all of the pain from my knees was gone. Never came back.

So that was like the beginning. And then I did a lot of explorations with different plant medicines, ayahuasca, bufalvarious, but then also some explorations with plants that people are generally not familiar with at all. There’s this thing you can do, they call it a dieta, where there are certain plants that

different tribes identify as master plant teachers that you can take small amounts of over a period of time and then follow strict rules like with diet and other behaviors. And you allow the plant to really work with you in more of a permanent way where it helps you clear through a lot of like blockages on physical, emotional and otherwise. And

Julie Hilsen (14:12)
you

Bjorn (14:14)
I was invited to do my, I’ve done three now. I was invited to do my first one for this guy. was the ayahuasca, ayahuasca girl, the shippibo maestro who was serving ayahuasca in a lot of the ceremonies that I went to. And he had brought some of this plant with him from Peru. So I was to take it as a tea every night for the first eight days of the month.

And then there was a plant bath as well with that. So the first night I made the tea and I drank it and I went to bed. I woke up the middle of the night.

with this feeling of intense bliss coming from my chest and I realized that I was humming and I woke myself up humming this note that was like in connection with whatever’s going on in my heart chakra. I woke me up and so I had asked him about this, you know, the next time I saw him that very next week and he said, he goes,

Julie Hilsen (15:15)
Hmm.

Bjorn (15:26)
That is your path.

Julie Hilsen (15:29)
so you knew you needed to explore music and the sound within you.

Bjorn (15:37)
Yeah, and so I did an exploration with a bufo alvarius, which is a much more of a not all plant you diet on, but a plant you have a very short experience with, although it continues to work with you for a few months afterward. And so this is a if you ever saw there was a Simpsons episode once upon a time where people were licking toads. I don’t know if you ever watched that. So that is they’re making fun of bufo alvarius, essentially, when they’re doing that, because it comes from a toad excretion.

Julie Hilsen (15:52)
Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bjorn (16:07)
you smoke it and you go on a journey for 15-20 minutes and you come back. So I was doing this in a private session setting from the other two facilitators from the light portal, Tian and Mila. So then Jose and Tian and Mila made up the team of the light portal. So I went into this with the intention of wanting to

opened my third eye more, and this is I had in mind. And they served me this and it was, you smoke it. So I inhale until I cleared the pipe. They told me, just put your arms up and let yourself just gently fall back onto the mattress. And so the moment I finished,

Julie Hilsen (16:42)
Yeah.

Bjorn (17:03)
at the top of the breath and I started exhales. I went back. I was just sighing and pure bliss. Just, and then I felt after a few minutes or however long it was in that state, I was in a very, very deep trance. I felt this really sharp sensation right in the center of my forehead. Like someone was digging their fingernail right into the middle of my head. It hurt. But then

Julie Hilsen (17:28)
Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (17:32)
I saw this explosion of blue light everywhere all of a sudden and then this song just poured out of me. And that was when my vocal range has opened up beyond a limited range.

Julie Hilsen (17:47)
Wow. Well, when you described the first ceremony where you brought in, it was blown into your nose, that’s what came to mind was that was clearing your pituitary gland. was releasing because we all know we’re calcified. Our third eyes are completely calcified because we’ve had calcium and

exposure to these things that make it hard for us to reach that center, the third eye, which is where all this magic happens, this divine connection that we’re all having to work through that muck. So when you were telling me about blowing the smoke and inhaling that, that’s what I, your sinuses are the closest connection. And I was like, wow, that’s really powerful.

but then falling back, you’re like, let’s freaking wake up here. Let’s make this happen. And so you are facilitating that. You’re so brave. But then you got relief because you were reinforced because you didn’t have to go to the chiropractor to get 10 minutes of relief anymore. You’re getting sustained relief is what I heard you say. Your knees didn’t hurt anymore. Was your back cleared up too? Okay.

Bjorn (19:06)
So that took more time.

That really started changing a lot when my time in Tulum ended and I came back to the States and I practicing Qigong and learning how to integrate that into the energetics of how I work. And I rarely ever, I think I haven’t been to the chiropractor in probably six months, I don’t know.

Julie Hilsen (19:34)
and you took charge of your energetic body, but you also said yes to the experience, right? Like you’re like, well, let me check this out. The whole idea of taking something and then puking all over the floor. I’m like, I’m so chicken. I’m so chicken.

Bjorn (19:42)
said yes to many experiences.

Part of the irony with all of it was that I eventually became one of the facilitators for the light portal when I was living there.

Julie Hilsen (20:00)
Nice.

So how long were you in Tulum? I just want to get a picture of that.

Bjorn (20:07)
About a year and a half

pretty close.

Julie Hilsen (20:12)
So that was during COVID, but how did you just had extra money and it’s cheap to once you get there, it’s pretty cheap to live or how did you, did you know?

Bjorn (20:21)
I wouldn’t say it’s cheap to live by

any means at all, especially now. It’s gotten a lot worse since I was there, but I had the money. I

you know, didn’t bother me to.

go there and have an experience and I really wanted to get out of where I was and go somewhere that felt more open and that place was perfect for me at the time.

Julie Hilsen (20:46)
There’s so many hidden gifts in that time. I was thinking about that. Just leaving the store yesterday, I was like, gosh, remember, you know, was just contemplating to myself about how we just would hang out. We just have all day. There’s so many, like some people finish Netflix. They watched every show on Netflix, but you know, I wrote my book. I like.

connected with my guides. I did past life regressions. Like you said, we had space and you physically went, but a lot of people just created space in their little homes because we didn’t have a choice. it’s like COVID this and COVID that, but man, we got a lot of pearls out of that. And a lot of people at a time to question say, well, what’s going on in my school with my kids?

or what’s going on with my health? And they could go down rabbit holes of nutrition and figuring out garbage that you’re putting in preservatives that don’t serve your energetic body or your physical body. Like you found out it’s all connected. It’s just so beautiful. I was gonna ask you when I listened to your sound healing, well, first of all, I noticed it was 26 minutes. And I wanted to ask you if there is a significance to the length of it.

Bjorn (22:11)
If there is, it wasn’t intentional consciously.

Julie Hilsen (22:15)
Okay, well if numerology 2 and 6, if you add them, that’s 8. And 8 is infinity, like all knowing.

Bjorn (22:25)
That is true.

Julie Hilsen (22:27)
So that’s sort of fun, I didn’t know, cosmically these things line up usually, I mean, without an intention.

Bjorn (22:34)
What hits me the most numerically is 11 11. It just from every angle all the time.

Julie Hilsen (22:38)
This

Yeah, me too. Well, my YouTube channel is 111. Repeating ones are the angels talking to me. So that’s as strong with me. And there was a woman I interviewed yesterday. She had a strong connection to repeating ones as well. So yeah, people, if you see these repeating numbers, it’s not an accident. It’s not.

It’s somebody trying to tell you. Some being is trying to raise your awareness about whatever. And if you get quiet, you can figure it out. This isn’t a gift. This is just paying attention. Like everybody has this ability. It is a gift, but it’s not selective is what I wanna say. Everybody has this opportunity. It’s just saying yes and being aware. Okay, so then the other thing I wanna ask you is when you’re chanting in the…

the sound healing. Is that a light language or is that Native American? What language? Is there a language?

Bjorn (23:50)
It’s the language of my primary guide. So it’s a dragon language that carries forth the energy of a variety of different beings. And so it’s a dynamic shift. So there are different energies that come in and come out continuously throughout the time. But the blue dragon is like the conductor runs the show. And then I feel through my body.

for the most part and I just can feel where to go with it and when to stop or start or change or so on.

Julie Hilsen (24:27)
I felt that I felt the different contractions and expansions, the different intonations that different like the, you know, crescendo and decrescendo like, could tell it was intentional, like something was guiding, but I had to ask, what language is this? Because I’ve heard light, light language channel. I’m like, that’s not like a light language, because they go out. know, yours is from the

Bjorn (24:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Hilsen (24:55)
deep in the soul, like you’re like coming up, everybody, you’ve got to check it out. It’s so wonderful. And it’s physical. Yeah. So that’s what I wanted to ask you is like, why, what do you think? Why do you think sound is such a powerful modality for us? Like what, what’s your reflection on that? Cause I have an opinion, but I want to pick your brain about it.

Bjorn (25:01)
It’s very physical, yeah.

So many people who go on to a healing path struggle to ground themselves into their body and so many people are afraid to go on a healing path because they’re scared of leaving their body. So sound is like a bridge that people understand

Julie Hilsen (25:31)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (25:49)
And the body knows what to do by itself. So you don’t have to be a genius meditator or some savant in energetics to get a lot of benefit from it. But then also if you are one of those things, you can, there’s no end to the growth that you can get as well. But yeah, to me it’s a way to bridge the reality.

bridge the cosmos and the earth planes and bring everything together into like a homeostasis.

Julie Hilsen (26:26)
I love that. you know, I’m just okay, I’m just picturing the inner ear and those three little bones, the hammer anvil and the staple, stapes, those three little bones. And then they, they touch our little tympanic membrane that that’s in your ear. Like if you poke a q-tip, that’s what you hit and it hurts. And it looks like a trampoline. And then those, those three bones,

connect to your cochlea, which is this beautiful image. It looks like a snail shell. And just the divinity of that, those organs within our body, and it’s just beautiful. And it’s like this trampoline, this tympanic membrane that is like a little drum. And it’s a little drum. so when you listen to the drum physically, those vibrations, they connect with the inside of your head. And it’s just…

It’s a beautiful mini universe to me happening inside your head. And it’s just beautiful. And then other thing that came to me was like, as you’re talking, it’s like when you can get out of your head and just get into your heart. And like you’re saying on your website, that theta state, you can’t get there if you’re letting your thoughts rule your body. You can only get there if you release, right?

Bjorn (27:31)
Yeah.

Julie Hilsen (27:52)
That’s the idea of the theta is your brain waves just go slow and yeah.

Bjorn (27:57)
So what’s interesting to me

about what you’re saying is what I’ve observed, like say for example, I’m listening to a sound session myself.

I try not to be too hard on myself about what I’m thinking because I know my brain is a receiver and it’s always receiving thoughts that reflect the frequency that my body and my being is at. So when I’m listening to a sound session, there might be something on my mind and I’ll play with it a little bit sometimes and I’ll just let the thoughts come and maybe I’ll even contemplate them a little bit. And then the thoughts just with the…

Julie Hilsen (28:23)
Beautiful.

Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (28:39)
And then by the end, what thought.

Julie Hilsen (28:46)
Ha

Bjorn (28:47)
yeah,

I had an idea about something. What was that? I don’t remember.

Julie Hilsen (28:51)
And but wait a minute, you didn’t

take, did you take something? Did you drink a tea before that? Or that’s just your audio only? Okay, because I could see if you were doing a ceremony beyond just the physical.

Bjorn (28:59)
That’s just audio only.

Well, yeah, I mean, that can

that can be an accelerant for sure for a person doing something additional. Definitely can. I’m just I have so many experiences that that sort of just what happens a lot of times when I’m doing it.

Julie Hilsen (29:22)
Well, I believe you can get to a dimension with just the intention, but you’ve done it through physical, through your body. also, there’s this whole maybe a portal or just this energetic field that you connect into when you know about it. And to me, that’s like time travel or it’s like shifting timelines because you’re putting your…

Bjorn (29:42)
Yeah, the quantum field.

Julie Hilsen (29:49)
your aura, your mental body into this other state.

Bjorn (29:56)
That’s what’s working. So for example, like in a session, the chanting has a shamanic component. So it’s working in the quantum field, the field you’re describing, or any other type of spiritual healing is working in that field. And that’s why it’s so effective to do remote healings, people are realizing more and more, because that field is there and it’s ever present. So yeah.

Julie Hilsen (29:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

It’s just you saying yes to it. And we’re only bound by what our mind can conceive or refuse to conceive. And that’s scary for some people, like, you know, and I think that’s why it’s really important to be in your body and know you’re safe and trust, trust the journey that you’re going through. Yeah.

So yeah, I was gonna ask you how you discovered spirit through your music, but that was when you met with your guide and he said, that’s your calling. That’s when you knew that spirit was connecting through music.

Bjorn (31:02)
That was a signpost for me. There’s been so many.

Julie Hilsen (31:07)
Well, yeah, like you said to me earlier, it’s like, sometimes you got to get beat over the head with the same concept over and over for you to say, okay, I finally hear you. Okay, I’ll take action. Like that’s, yeah, that’s normal, right? The more you talk to people, it’s like…

Bjorn (31:18)
Yeah.

Julie Hilsen (31:25)
I love it. So you live in a farm up in Wisconsin. So but do you do people come to your farm at all? Or you do it’s mostly remote? Like how do you how do you interact when people connect with you?

Bjorn (31:43)
There is a healing center that’s not too far from here that I go to sometimes, but pretty much everything that I’m doing right now is online. It’s just been a very natural way for me because I do because I use sound and I can make recordings and people can use and different the fit their lifestyle and I can do just as much in a remote session as I can and in person. So it’s a lot easier to help more people.

Julie Hilsen (32:11)
Right. And it’s, yeah, because you don’t have to have the time or the money. It costs a lot to fly or to, you know, to get to places and hotels and the whole. Yeah, so I can, yeah, I appreciate that. And like you said, it’s in the quantum. So you’re getting the same benefit. my goodness.

Bjorn (32:12)
doing it that way.

And so sometimes

I use plants like myself and then I convey the energy of those plants. And so then I can offer different experiences and people who can’t go to the jungle in Peru and do a seven day ayahuasca retreat can get an idea and can start to learn a little bit about the energy of different plants and psychedelics and have some experiences that are a little different.

Julie Hilsen (33:01)
want to ask you, what would you say would be the minimum age that you would encourage someone to try something like that? Do you think someone has to be an adult, like 21, or you think someone should be in their

Bjorn (33:10)
try something like.

go down to Peru and like have like you mean like to go to the jungle or what are you saying?

Julie Hilsen (33:19)
Yeah, like

if someone had the resources, it… I just wanted just, I mean, just your opinion and I’m not condoning or, you know, take what serves you and leave what doesn’t. But I was just curious if this is more of an adult thing because you need experiences or it’d be something that you think would like set someone up to have a more spiritual life and maybe earlier would be better. There might be rites of passages within the Native American culture that coincide with it.

Bjorn (33:25)
Hmm.

Julie Hilsen (33:49)
an age? don’t know, I’m just curious.

Bjorn (33:52)
Well, some of the tribes that I’ve sat with like the Huni Kun, Shipibo, the Ayahuasca girls had been drinking Ayahuasca since they were seven, eight, nine, 10 years old. And I mean, that’s in their culture though.

Julie Hilsen (34:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Bjorn (34:17)
There’s some element of risk when doing plants like this. For a lot of the traditions in some of these indigenous places, the whole tribe wouldn’t actually drink the medicine. They would have the shaman or the maestro drink it. then through medicine songs and other things, that’s how they would actually share it.

Drinking the medicine even in a group setting, even for the, lot of those tribes is a relatively more modern thing. So you can receive.

Julie Hilsen (34:52)
Mm-hmm. I love that.

I love that because you can share the energetics of it without having any of the physical side effects that might not resonate with the body.

Bjorn (35:03)
Yeah,

there are a lot of risks inherent with drinking ayahuasca. And if you have a family history of mental illness, then you might be at a higher risk for it. I don’t like recommending anybody drink it, but I’m not saying don’t. I’m just not going to give a recommendation just because it’s so personal to the individual and only the individual could really truly know when they’re ready for the experience.

Julie Hilsen (35:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Bjorn (35:32)
depending on their age and what they can do and what is coming up for them.

Julie Hilsen (35:39)
That’s, I think that’s very wise. That’s, you know, have to be careful and follow your path. Yeah.

Bjorn (35:50)
there are medicines that are more available, you know, like Santa Maria cannabis, and that’s a very powerful medicine as well. I know.

Julie Hilsen (35:55)
Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (36:03)
There is a, it’s a Mayan abuelo. So an abuelo in Mayan culture, know, there, I mean, it’s a Spanish term that means grandfather literally, but they call like the elder person in these communities, abuelos. It’s like a term of endearment that people use. So there’s this guy, Abuelo Antonio lives down in Mexico, has a property down there. And his,

Julie Hilsen (36:21)
Good luck.

Bjorn (36:32)
energy field is so potent that

matter where you go on his property and they’re like I don’t know three different cenotes on his property I can it’s not that small of a place you know it’s quite large no matter where you go on his property he’s there his energy is there his energy is everywhere and as a regular qigong practitioner the last two years I’ve missed maybe three total days of practice two of those days were when I was staying there and

Julie Hilsen (36:49)
Mm-hmm

Bjorn (37:06)
well, Antonio’s because I would wake up in the morning and I’ll be like, I, I don’t need to do Chico. Mike, my energy was completely clear and bright and ready to go. So I brought that up because he works with Santa Maria a lot. And that’s like the primary medicine he uses and he thinks it’s the best. And, the, so like, there are a lot of medicines that people can use if they learn how

before they go into the jungle, do ayahuasca, maybe try to learn something about setting an intention and working with something that’s available that you can use, you can, that you know you can tolerate and learn how to cultivate a real relationship with the plant and take things a step at a time and see where it goes, you know, rather than try to skip a step. Cause there will, there will be consequences. I had consequences. I went through a lot of them using peak.

experiences on different plant medicines. But then I had about a three month period where I was just in like a major depression. I resigned my post at the light portal. I couldn’t handle the energetics of working on people and then taking on energies and all that. And my liver started going through this crazy detox where there were a few nights there where as soon as I would lay down,

Julie Hilsen (38:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (38:33)
Within like minutes, my stomach, whole abdomen was being severe pain and I would have to stand up and hang from a pull-up bar to stretch my body out just so could burp out the energy. And I was just in complete intense sadness for probably two months, like all the time every day. And it was like a birth trauma I was working through, but it came on like a freight train.

Julie Hilsen (38:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Bjorn (39:00)
And a big part

of that is because I was pushing through so many things, I had to take, you know, and integrate the consequences of those actions. And a lot of people would not want to feel that terribly for that long of a period of time. It’s very difficult. Thankfully, I didn’t have to like go to a full time job and do like very normal life. was able to just…

Julie Hilsen (39:18)
Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (39:29)
relax by myself for the most part and let it all unfold for me.

Julie Hilsen (39:34)
just surrender

to it, ask it what it means, like where is this coming from and get the answer. I can relate. I I used to be able to drink a couple glasses of wine. I can’t, my system will not tolerate it since I have asked to help and be a channel to be available, to be.

whatever this is, whatever I signed up for, it’s made me very sensitive to food additives, to, they call them ascension symptoms. mean, but then also we have solar flares coming in that make it really hard for you to feel great energy sometimes. We’re affected by lots of energies. So I can appreciate when you’re going through and clearing out so much, but I honor that you took it on because

you’re clearing like not just your life, you’re clearing ancestral things that needed to be transmuted and like it’s, it is a calling. And so I honor, I honor your journey and thank you for sharing all this. It’s an incredible story.

Bjorn (40:48)
Yeah, was. Thank you. Going through all of that and then coming. And then I met my next teacher, you know, after that happened and then things really started getting interesting. I’ll share just a small bit about it. So. Like once the depression cycle, whatever it was, was finally starting to the fog was lifting.

Julie Hilsen (41:00)
Hahaha!

you

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (41:18)
I wanted to go get an adjustment chiropractic and the guy I went to normally was out of town, but his secretary was also a friend of mine told me, well, he’s got a guy coming in doing work when he’s out. He’s a this cranial sacral therapist and here’s his background. And I thought, sure. I’ll set an appointment. Well, turns out while the guy is technically a cranial sacral therapist, he’s also a shipibo maestro and ayahuasca.

Julie Hilsen (41:38)
Yeah.

Bjorn (41:48)
So I went in for this session and he basically didn’t touch my body at all. He was for the most part chanting over me for the whole appointment, right?

Julie Hilsen (42:00)
He could read what was going on. wow.

Bjorn (42:02)
Yes, he could. And he was chanting

and doing all this stuff. And then he had me put my hands out and he had, they used this stuff, which people I’m trying to think, Agua Florida, they put it in their mouth and they spit out little bits of it. So he had me put my hands out and he blew this stuff on my hands. And so we worked together. I did a few private sessions with him and then he invited me to do

sit with him in ayahuasca that he would run. And I’d been, I’d done maybe 18 ayahuasca sessions at that point. And I thought, sure, you know, I, well, I know I didn’t lose. And I was familiar with the shippibo. I’d been, that’s the most I’d sat with. So his sthinkermonia was very small because he only invited people he personally knew or people that were clients of his doing private work. And

Julie Hilsen (42:49)
you

Bjorn (42:59)
So weird because the other even the ship people, I mean, the ship people’s way of doing ceremonies very different than the others because the others all sing very traditional songs and the people channels their songs called e-carrots. So, but even the the maestro that I had originally received from the ship people, he had a very organized process of how he did it. You know, he ran the ceremony in a very particular way and he got up at certain points and he went around the room at certain points. This guy was like,

Julie Hilsen (43:13)
Okay.

Bjorn (43:30)
totally like shooting from the hip moment by moment. so I, found myself getting very angry. I’m sitting there in a lot of anger. Like I’m getting ripped off. I’m in scam. What is this? I was upset. Yeah, I upset. And then then I spent the anger subsided a little bit. And right before sunrise, he had been ignoring me the whole night, like basically attending to like a couple of other people. And I felt like neglected and all this stuff.

Julie Hilsen (43:42)
You’re getting paranoid. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Bjorn (43:58)
comes over

to me right before sunrise and he sits in front of me and he’s like, okay, now I want you to sit up straight. And he’s like, I want you to inhale root to crown. So you inhale from your root and blow out through your crown. And while I do the medicine chant. So he does the medicine chant. I have no idea how long it was a few minutes anyways. And he said, put out your hands. And he blows on the hands and I feel the same for the most part. Then he kind of looks in a little bit and he’s like, hmm.

And he was looking very carefully at my hands, kind of zeroing in, then he just goes, he blows very gently and my entire like energetic field completely like shifted in instant. And I went from like being in this sort of close off state to being so wide open that I was hearing, smelling, tasting, seeing all the energy of everything that was happening all of a sudden.

And I started laughing.

Julie Hilsen (44:59)
like a big

kaleidoscope or like just so much joy, so much energy.

Bjorn (45:05)
It was great. so he, he looks at me and he’s like, life is a game, he says. then so from there, I decided to work with him and do a Dieta that he facilitated. But instead of doing it locally, he worked with me online. So every so many weeks, he would meet with me on zoom, he would give me a new chant.

Julie Hilsen (45:13)
Mmm.

Bjorn (45:31)
And I would listen to that chant every day. I never actually physically took the plant I was dieting. It was called Marossa. I did the entire thing all energetically through sound. And about a month into the dieta, I went out for a walk one evening, dusk maybe, dusk time. And I was just walking and then I started feeling this warm sensation right in the center of my upper chest. And then the next thing I know, I feel this sort of like

opening like the petals of a flower just like opening like all in an instant. And then I was immediately just fell into love with everything in my physical environment. The lamp post, the building next to me, the grass, anything that I put my attention on, I started feeling like just unconditional love just pouring through my whole body. It was such an incredible experience and

Julie Hilsen (46:07)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Bjorn (46:30)
There was no physical plant that I took, you know, like so.

Julie Hilsen (46:35)
Hmm, that’s amazing. I

love it. I love it. What a great story for a life of love, you know, like being in love with every single thing, just that opening and the adoration and the lens of curiosity and, you know, just taking it all in because it’s all everything around us is such a freaking miracle. But we get numb to it for whatever reason.

So you found a way to look at it with the child’s eyes with joy. So beautiful. I’m gonna encourage.

Bjorn (47:11)
And, it’s beautiful.

and the

one last thing I was in that state too, looking everywhere I would look, not only was there this connection with all the physical things in the environment, but everywhere I looked, I saw this different, there would be a dynamic shifting of all these different colors that were blended together like this, like the most beautiful painting that you’ve ever seen. But no matter where you look, the painting changes and it’s still the most beautiful painting you’ve ever seen.

Julie Hilsen (47:21)
Yeah.

How long did that last, or can you still do that?

Bjorn (47:47)
you

Alas, that went on for a few hours and then it happened again the next evening. But I haven’t had that exact experience since. I’ve had many others, but not that one.

Julie Hilsen (47:55)
Yeah.

Okay.

Mm hmm.

Do you notice anything with like the moon or your chart, your astrological chart with these amazing experiences? Or do you think it’s? I don’t know. I’m just I always get curious about when something happens to me if I can find it, you know, was it Venus? Was it, you know, is there some alignment? I don’t look at it to say things are going to happen, but sometimes I look at it and say, that’s

That’s maybe why I was feeling that way and everything goes and comes, right? Like it’s all a cycle, but have you connected anything?

Bjorn (48:40)
I don’t know what time I

was born. So I can’t really use a lot of that stuff. I could probably maybe find out if I went and got a copy of my birth certificate and looked at it, but.

Julie Hilsen (48:43)
huh. yeah.

Bjorn (48:54)
I haven’t gotten around to that.

Julie Hilsen (48:55)
Yeah, because I do agree with your shaman that it is a game.

This life is a game and we’re spiritual beings having a human existence and we get these sparkles of these tidbits, these breadcrumbs of how amazing our souls are, how limitless we are. We’re here in this game right now and we’re here, we gotta make it through the relativity of Earth and the 3D.

Like my last guest said, through the mud, the lotus blooms, right? And for whatever reason, this is part of our soul path. And we come across these wonderful miracles and these tragic events, and it’s all part of the game. But we have some control. We’re not just bouncing around randomly. We have choice.

Bjorn (49:49)
Yeah.

So many people think they want to get initiated by the cosmos, but they want to skip ahead of getting initiated by the earth and really understanding that.

Julie Hilsen (50:04)
Mm.

The earth is the earth is where we start. It’s our home. It’s our base. That’s why I just I know that when people get more in tune or conscious, we take care of the earth better. Like environmentalism happens through people waking up to their divinity. It’s not it’s not forced by the government or any kind of entity. It’s it’s through your knowing

how precious you are and then you protect what’s around you because everything’s precious. So I’m really excited for our mass consciousness to grab onto more of this and to see the magic and the wonder around. And so that’s why I’m so delighted to share your message. I encourage, we’re gonna have a link to your website, a landing page and also on my website to share your sound healings and.

you know, just keep our guides working together. asked them to collaborate today and I’m so happy they did. I thank you so much.

Bjorn (51:10)
Thank you for having me on.

Julie Hilsen (51:12)
My pleasure.