Julie Hilsen: 0:01

Life of Love Life of Love Life of Love. Life of Love With Julie Hilsen. Hello, dear friends, and welcome to another episode of Life of Love, where we explore life and faith and spirituality with curiosity and open mind, and today is no exception. I’m really excited to introduce Cory Rosenke. Cory, welcome to this show. Thanks for being here.

Cory Rosenke: 0:29

Thank you so much for having me. I’ve very much appreciated.

Julie Hilsen: 0:32

I’ve been looking forward to this, me too. Me too, and I cannot even try to synthesize your journey, so I was going to give you sort of a you know, give us, give us some insight as to your path. I mean, you, you’re from Canada but now you’re living in. You’ve been living in California for over six years and and you know you’ve it says that you’ve gone from cowboy to carpenter. So give my audience a little insight as to your journey and what’s brought you here to be sharing spirituality and and being a leader in the spiritual community.

Cory Rosenke: 1:08

Yeah Well, thank you very much. My journey really started in poverty. I grew up very, very poor, and when I say poor I mean kind of living in the forest picking berries. Poor, my family was were homeless, living in tents for a while, and I grew up asking the question of why. You know, why is the situation the way it is? Why do I feel the way I feel? Why, why do my parents make the decisions they make? Why do I feel this restlessness within me? I’m from, you know, to a certain degree I think it was maybe somewhat, what might? I’ll say this just because it’s myself somewhat freakish, but I was one of those little boys that you know. If people came over to visit you know, the other kids would be outside playing tag, but I would be in the house, sitting, you know, against the wall in the kitchen listening to the adults talk. I was always curious, always wondering why. And so from a very young age, from, I would say, just nine, 10 and 11, especially those years, I was really big into philosophy, asking the question why I was reading at that very young age Plato and and Plutarch and Aristotle and Confucius, and really trying to figure out the world. I was raised in a lot of confusion and a lot of pain, and I wanted to know why. And so I really explored philosophy for years. In fact I still love philosophy, but I didn’t find the answers I was looking for in philosophy. In fact, the truth of the matter is philosophy oftentimes asks more questions than it answers. And so then that kind of drove me into toward psychology and for a while in my study, as I was really into Freud and his whole idea about the development of personality and the id and the ego and the super ego and all these theories that he had, and psychology in general is a fascinating and wonderful study. But once again I found it didn’t answer my questions. Once again it asked more questions than it answered. And then, of course, for a while I really dove into neuroscience, which a lot of people have, because neuroscience is a fantastic and interesting study in science the whole idea of the neuroplasticity of the brain and how our brain will actually change, shape and respond differently as we think differently, as we choose to make different choices, and the effect of brain chemicals. It’s absolutely a fascinating study. But at the end of the day what I discovered was both philosophy, psychology and neuroscience for that matter. That’s all the study of mechanism. It’s not the study of source. It does not answer the question why and I mean the study of mechanism is great. It’s very interesting to know that if something happens in your life this way, it will release a brain chemical that might kind of make you feel this way. The whole mechanism of that is very fascinating. But it does not answer that source question, which ultimately drove me to spirituality and where I believe that I found the answers to that question of why.

Julie Hilsen: 4:03

That is a lot to unpack there, Cory, I love it. I love it and I guess your humble beginnings led you on a quest that you’re like there’s something more and some people have and we have not, and you knew there was something to get beyond and you had that internal angst to get there. It’s just I hold space for that. And yeah, so when you say you found the answer as to why, does it have to do with the magnetism? Or because you wrote a book about the magnetic heart of God, and that, to me that begs the question about love and unconditional love and acceptance. There’s so many layers to what you present, with your diverse background of all these wisdom studies you’ve integrated and you’ve coursed through and you’ve sifted out. So you’ve sifted out. The answer that you ultimately found in yourself is what I’m hearing.

Cory Rosenke: 5:17

Well, I think what I discovered was so I’m also a transformational coach. I coached people from Google executives who are wanting to climb the corporate ladder and wondering how to people who are just in a really bad spot in life and they’re trying to figure out how to move forward. But in coaching, we always say that awareness precedes change, and so what you’re really wanting to do is help people come to a new awareness, and it is that awareness that will open the door to a lasting change. Without a new awareness, it’s very hard for change to happen, and so, in this particular regard, I came to the awareness that I always knew was there, but then I learned to articulate it, and that is that we exist beyond biology. We are, and, as simple as that sounds, most of us, when I make that statement, say yes, I know that, I’m aware of that, but very few of us live like it. The world is obsessed over catering to the cravings of the body and the mind, and meanwhile, I would say, our souls have been starving to death. And when we look at the world and we see a world divided and it’s quite fascinating, julie, because when you think of it, we have to realize that the generations that are alive today. We have more than any other generation in the history of the world Literally the history of the poorest among us have more than the kings and queens of not so very long ago. We live in an age where we have unprecedented access to modes, to prosperity, to freedoms, to world travel, to comforts, to leisure. We have more than any generation in the history of the world. And yet virtually every study shows that we are more unhappy than ever, and I believe, at the root of it it’s because the general person on the street has forgotten what it means to be human. We’ve somehow bought into a lie, and it’s a lie. We’ve told ourselves, to be frank, that we are defined by the reflection in the mirror, or we are defined by the number on the waist scale, or we are defined by the diplomas on our wall, and those are all lies. We exist beyond biology and in fact, I would say it is our non-biological selves that best represent who we actually are. That is the core of who we are. But we live in a world that, even though many of us will acknowledge that there is something more than this flesh that we are currently encased in, not many of us live like it, and so we judge people as if they are merely flesh and blood. We seek to pursue and satisfy our flesh and blood and, as I mentioned, and meanwhile our souls. They’re starving to death, and I believe that that is what’s causing that undercurrent of confusion today, of anger today, of loneliness today, and just the general division that we see. And so I have really wanted to, I really want to help people. If not, maybe it’s a matter of them remembering, and maybe for some people it’ll be new information. More than a brain or a body, you are a soul, and when we authentically grasp this realization, it changes everything.

Julie Hilsen: 8:52

And that’s what you say. We’re living in process. We’re living in biology Because we feel in our body and we want to meet our needs. And it’s understandable, because if we don’t meet our needs, we’re not going to survive. But how do we get from meeting our needs, which we’re able to do, like you so eloquently said, how do you get from realizing that everything is fine? It’s a level of stress or anxiety that needs to get peeled off, or you can be like no, really, I’m really good. And is it gratitude, is it? You know, how do you, when you’re saying you have to have awareness, you have to have a goal, like get to that dream state? That’s what I want to inspire people to find the freedom to dream. Say what if you know? Like to rise above the status quo of you know diploma on the wall or the car in your garage, like because when those things define you, it’s just an exercise in delusion, because you’re never going to have the newest car. There’s always going to be something else, some different level of status. So you know, I totally agree with you that you know, this kind of living through external affirmation can really lead you down to some dark places and it gets to be an empty bucket. So you know how do you spark that dream. State that the idea that there’s something more.

Cory Rosenke: 10:29

Well, I really believe and this has been my great passion, julie, for a while now that most people don’t know what they’re looking for, and it’s. We see a world laced with the paths of prosperous and educated multitudes looking for something, looking for fulfillment, looking for purpose, but the fulfillment and purpose are kind of ambiguous terms. Ultimately, we are searching for something when we don’t really know what it is. And so, as you mentioned, my book is called the Magnetic Heart of God Understanding the Five Cravians of your Soul, and what I’ve really tried to do is to help people, to say hey, listen, I know you’ve been searching and you’ve been searching. Some of you have been searching in sexuality, some of you have been searching in education, some of you have been searching in the pursuit of money or relationship or whatever it is. Well, what you are looking for is these five cravings, and so, if we don’t know what we’re looking for, we can’t find it. And so, really, what I have endeavored to do is reveal what I call the five cravings of the soul. And I call them cravings of the soul because oftentimes they are miscategorized as psychological cravings. They are not psychological cravings because they are not biological cravings. They are non-biological cravings, and so that’s why I categorized them as cravings of the soul. And these five cravings, I believe, are what motivate every one of us to do everything we’ve ever done. And when we understand what we’re looking for, we have the opportunity to find it. But as long as I’ll give you a classic example. Everybody on earth is, I would say that our chief, the chief ambition of man is to experience peace. Peace is our mega goal, to be in a state of peace. A peace is that place where all questions are answered and every craving is satisfied, and that is what we are looking for in all of our pursuits, even in the case of war. People go to war because they aren’t at peace and they think that if they can somehow silence someone or invade someone or conquer someone or whatever, that they will themselves suddenly gain peace. But we are constantly looking for peace. But even that is an ambiguous term, and I think for most people. I think that they actually think that peace is a personalized thing. Words like peace, words like happiness. There are words that we would say yeah, I’m looking for peace, I’m looking for happiness, but what does that mean? They’re ambiguous terms, and because we’re searching for something ambiguous, it makes it really hard to find. And so I believe that these words can be defined by five cravings, and of course, in my book I go into great deep detail into each of these cravings. But the cravings are these security, identity, independence, significance and innocence. They are the prerequisites to peace, they are the prerequisites to happiness, they are the definition of love and they are what we are looking for in every pursuit security, identity, independence, significance and innocence. This is the cry, I believe, of our soul. We don’t just have souls, we have souls that are searching for something, and I believe that it is these five cravings. Sometimes I call them the five core humanities, because I believe that they are essentially the definition of humanity. They are the drive of everyone, and of course we all pursue them in different places, we all pursue them in different directions, but ultimately we are all driven by those same five cravings, and I think it’s important that the power of it, I believe, is finally being able to name it. So, for example, there are people who are driven towards marriage or some long lasting human connection. What they’re looking for is security, and when I say security, I mean physical security and relational security. We want to know that we’re physically safe and we want to know that our hearts are safe in the hands of those who hold them. And so they enter. Looking for security, for identity Security asks four symbiotic questions who am I? Why am I? What is my purpose? Do I have value? Those four symbiotic questions. And then there’s independence, and I break independence into two parts as well. There’s one part of independence is freedom, our demand, our craving too, that we in some way experience autonomy, that we have free will, that we are not constrained. And then the other part of that is individuality. That I want you to know, that I am distinct. There’s a part in each one of us that needs to be distinct. My wife is an identical twin, so I can speak to this. But those identical twins in general, even those twins who you meet them and it seems like they love to have the same haircuts, they wear the same clothes, at some point they will come to a place where they need to have a distinction. Maybe they’re the athletic twin or the academic twin, everything that is distinct. Security, identity, independence, significance we all need to know that we are in some way special, not that we are just unique, but that we are special Again. For some people, I often think about this the day Usain Bolt has his record beat for the 100 meter dash. It’s going to be a hard day for him, because he is the fastest man in the world and he has been for a long time. Not everybody has that particular need for significance. For some of us, maybe we feel like we make the best apple pie right, or we’re the most punctual person, or whatever it is, but we all crave something that makes us feel significant. Then, of course, there’s innocence. That is, we all need to believe that we are good, not just that we aren’t bad, but that we are actually righteous when you think of it. Basically any argument you’ve ever had has been based upon how you felt. Like someone was either directly or indirectly claiming that you were guilty of wrongdoing or wrong thinking. It raises up in us a desire to fight back. Either we fight back and we accuse the other person because in the heat of the moment, we don’t need to be completely innocent, we just need to be more innocent than they are. We have this innocence battle, or we flee because we can’t be with someone who’s making us feel guilty. These five cravings are the reason we enter into marriage and they’re the reasons we exit a marriage because we feel like we didn’t find them. They are what we are hoping to experience when we pursue a career and they are what our employer is hoping to experience in our labors. These five cravings are the itch that all of us are seeking to have scratched. There’s power in that, because there’s power in being able to name what it is we’re looking for.

Julie Hilsen: 17:35

I love it. And to me it’s like okay. So if you look at these five things and if you just started the basic, like what do you need to feel secure, what does it mean to you, and just write down three things and go through the whole list and be like, okay, what is that trigger? And sometimes we just say things that we just heard someone else say, because we haven’t spent the time in contemplation, that silent, you know, not just meditation, not just intention, but just wrap it around a little, just play with the idea of it and see what comes in, because then you can be creative and free with what it means to you. I love that.

Cory Rosenke: 18:18

Well, it really allows you to love and even reconcile with the people around you, because you now know what the issue is. People wonder why won’t my sister talk to me? Why did my sister stop talking to me two years ago? Well, I’m a stranger and I can tell you what it is. It has something to do with security, identity, independence, significance or innocence. Some something there was triggered right and so that had them flee. And the reason I think that one of the reasons that I so much want to get this message out there is because, for me, I ultimately I’m a person of faith, so I reach faith conclusions, and I would be transparent in my book. I reach faith conclusions, but I’ve had atheists, I’ve had people from different faith backgrounds psychologists, doctors read it and some people who say where I’m not ready to accept your end thesis or your end hypothesis. The awareness of our cravings is transformational. It’s what unites all of us. We can have a conversation about this. Whether someone’s an atheist or a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Christian or a Hindu, we are all experiencing these five cravings and, of course, depending on our worldview, we’re going to pursue satisfaction for these cravings in different places. So what I want to do is help people say hey, this is what I’m looking for. And now that I know what I’m looking for, I can pursue it with I would say hopefully a much higher results, because I can now identify it. It’s not just happiness, some vague thing, it’s not just peace. I know what they are. I know what defines happiness. I now know what defines peace.

Julie Hilsen: 20:01

Right, and you could use it like in your like. We’ll go back to the marriage metaphor. You know, if you are having trouble with your spouse, then you can say, well, I don’t feel significant when all you want to do is watch football for five hours. You know, I feel insignificant here and it’s a whole lot different than maybe acting out or getting angry with them. You can just be like well, this is where I’m sitting, I’m sitting at insignificant. And so then you have a talking point. Instead of, yeah, I’m blaming you, You’re not calling someone selfish because they’re spending too much time on a hobby. You’re saying this is my state and it’s such a more productive, fruitful way to express where you are. Or when you spend all your money on a sports car, I don’t feel secure with our bank account. You know, it’s not like you’re reckless, you know so I just I love to put it in that framework, Absolutely.

Cory Rosenke: 21:07

And I just see where that could be.

Julie Hilsen: 21:08

I myself use it.

Cory Rosenke: 21:09

And I know several other therapists who are, who actively, are now using this in their therapy, because it allows you to take this kind of the world of problems and bring it down and say, okay, here it is. It’s somewhere amongst these five things, right, and that’s so. As an I will often I’ve often talked to people about this you show me a control freak or someone who we title a control freak. I’ll show you someone who is desperately looking for either security or significance. You know they’re that person who they’ve felt like the only way they can be safe. Maybe they grew up and things are very volatile and the only way they can feel safe is if they’re in control. You’re not, and so oftentimes we are way too quick to call someone a sociopath or a narcissist or something like that. It’s like whoa, let’s slow down with the name calling here for a moment. Let’s look at this right, this person who is perhaps inappropriately controlling people. What are they looking for? Is it? Is it security, Because once I know that, it allows me to love them better. Or is it significance? Maybe they grew up in a home where it was modeled for them that the way that they feel special or strong is by controlling others or subjugating someone else, right, and you could look at that and you can say that’s an unhealthy way to pursue this. But at least they understand it. Now, and because they understand it, there’s an opportunity for us to connect. There’s an opportunity to find healing, right. But as long as we’re throwing vague terms out peace, happiness, narcissists, sociopath it is very hard to live a life of love. And so now that we’re able to actually say what it is and come up with a reasonable definition, it allows us a connectivity that we didn’t have before, because we didn’t really understand each other before. But now we do. Right, and I mean, even when you think of politics. We are so divided in America today. We are so divided, and one of the reasons I think we are so divided is because we have politics is no longer about a conversation about issues. How are we best going to solve whatever this problem is in society? Politics has become about identity. We have adopted a political party or whatever as our identity, and once something is your identity, I always say like, this identity feels like home and you will fight to protect your home. And so we have to be very careful in our lives what we allow to become an identity. We have to make sure that if something is a preference, that it remains a preference but it doesn’t become our identity. But now it’s much easier to understand. Why is it? I can have conversation after conversation with this person and it’s like they don’t see my point of view. Well, it’s because it’s not about the issue for them, it’s about identity, and so they are very defensive. And when you understand that, you can hopefully try to help. First off, look at yourself and say, okay, what unhealthy identities have I adopted? But then hopefully you can be that person of love that helps someone else deconstruct or re-categorize things in their life. So we can say, hey, I’ve allowed this to become an identity and I need to re-categorize it as a preference and it’s okay to be a preference, Right.

Julie Hilsen: 24:31

And if it doesn’t serve you anymore, because I think that’s what the ego has. We want to be right, we want to stand behind our principles because we feel strongly, but to take that step back and say, well, does this really resonate with me anymore? And that constant inventory and you’re not a flake, because you change your mind it makes you discerning. So for some reason, there’s been a control paradigm of of this and that, and you versus us. That you know, I, it’s my, my mission to chisel away at that, at that dichotomy of the, the whole idea that things are black or white. No, it’s, there’s a continuum, it’s a continuum, it’s. It’s that way with everything is, you know, every single thing in nature, you can see a continuum and we’re part of that. So you know, I, just, I adore that. That’s part of your message, because it’s it’s, it’s what’s going to heal us. It’s going to bring us to Homo Sanctis. Have you heard that, instead of Homo sapiens, we’re going to be Homo Sanctis? Where we’re going to, as humanity, we’re going to, we’re going to live more from our hearts and a knowingness, versus having facts, that that we stand beside or behind that, these facts, that intellect will always let us down, because there’s always going to be new knowledge, and once you think you know something, once you believe you’re an expert on something, you close your mind to all the possibilities that are there.

Cory Rosenke: 26:04

And you had, you had mentioned something there. You talked about our need to be. We want to be right. Right, and that brings us to significance and innocence. Right, that’s why it’s very hard right to to have a conversation sometimes, because we have to be cautious. Are we like even you mentioned earlier, when you, let’s say, a hypothetical situation where you, you talk to your spouse and you say, when you buy that new car, it makes me feel insecure in our bank account? Right, that is very. When you have that awareness and you can share that with them, they can see you better. But also when you have that awareness, you can say why is it that they need to buy this car? Is it? Did their dad have this car and they are somehow wanting to identify with him? Or is this? Are they? Do they think this is the method that they need to enact in order to feel significant? Right, and you can look at them, and you can look at them with compassion, because you now know there’s a reason behind their behavior. Right, and it helps us see each other and we can. When we can truly see each other and truly see ourselves, then we can truly love each other, Then we can truly come together, Regardless of our background. Like I said, this is a point of unity for us because ultimately, at the end of the day, we’re going to. We’re going to choose different methods of pursuit, we’re going to try to satisfy these cravings in different places, but ultimately we are unified in the craving and that’s a special thing and the my personal view of this is the reason I called the book the Magnetic Heart of God Understanding the Five Cravings of your Soul is because these cravings are non-biological, which means they can only be satisfied in the non-biological. We can’t satisfy them with biological things. That craving for significance will never be satisfied by a new car, because as soon as you get it you’re going to need a newer car. And then you’re going to get that newer car and you’re going to see your neighbor has an even bigger car or one that’s got better mileage or whatever it is, and you’re going to say I need that to feel sick and it’s never going to be enough. It’s never going to be enough. Jim Carrey said something, the Canadian comedian. I just heard this the other day and I thought it was really good. He said I wish everybody, I wish for everybody to have the opportunity to be rich and famous so that they can realize that’s not the answer. It doesn’t matter how much fame, how much money, how tall your walls are, how deep your moat is, it’s never enough. Because we either know that we either get it and we realize okay, I thought this would satisfy me and it doesn’t satisfy me. Or we get it and we realize this can be taken away, this can be lost, and so we don’t have peace. And so, for all your listeners, I don’t want to dictate to you how you’re going to pursue security, identity, independence, significance and innocence, but I would caution, and I would, from the depths of my heart, I would encourage you to realize that you cannot satisfy these and biological things. So if you do, at the end of the day you will not have the result you want, and I would love to spare you that. And so my as I mentioned, my personal perspective is that our maker placed these cravings within us on purpose, so that they might draw us back to him, Because only in connection with our maker can these actually be satisfied. Because they cannot be satisfied in the biological, they must be met in the non-biological.

Julie Hilsen: 29:34

It’s just glorious. Glorious, that faith and that you know, leave it up to God to show you the way. And you know, and to have compassion for yourself. If you think the security is going to be a fancy alarm system on your house, like, understand that that’s your starting point and say, yeah, you know, that might be what I see in the newspaper, or someone trying to sell me something, which are taking advantage of one of those soul cravings. And there are industries that feed on this and you know porn and all that stuff it’s like it feeds on it. And you know, have compassion, see your shadow and then decide you’re going to get to the next level Because once you let that light in, you won’t fall back into the shadow again, because your soul is going to be fed by that light. And this just resonates with me. So much, Cory, I love this. I love this.

Cory Rosenke: 30:33

Thank you, and I have found it to be so unifying because, as you know, you were looking at each other, of course, you know, over these cameras and you see a shape sitting in front of you, right, and I see I’m seeing you and I’m seeing a shape sitting in front of me, when we can realize that this is not who we are. This is what we biologically see in this moment, but we are so much more. You are a soul who, I believe, is designed to live in connection with your maker. How awesome a thought is that you know, in our loneliest, darkest moments, to realize this is not all there is and this is not all we are. There is so much more available to us that we could tap into if we are willing to, to shift our perspective. And, as I mentioned, the sad part is the whole, so much of the world is caught in the trap or the rat race of the biological right. And so I often tell, I often will say to people you are not defined by the reflection in the mirror, you are not defined by the number on the way scale right. You are not defined by the diplomas on your wall right. It is your non-biological self that is the core of who you are, and when we truly embrace that, it changes the way we live. It truly changes everything.

Julie Hilsen: 31:55

And that gets down to the quantum, that neurotransmitters that are constantly being, and how many trillion cells do we have that all react to frequency. So if you can access these higher vibrations, you’re activating at a cellular level a higher state of being and a stronger connection to our creator, to our God. Oh and then what an amazing thing to offer your children Now, if you can parent with these five things in mind, yeah.

Cory Rosenke: 32:32

Oh, that is so perceptive of you to bring that up. Actually, I’m talking to someone next week about parenting in regards to the five cravings of the soul. We oftentimes and I have been guilty of this in my own life with my children I’ve wanted to make sure they experience physical security, that I quote unquote provide for them opportunity and a safe environment, and that is right. That is good. That is what we shouldn’t ever to do. But we cannot forget to help our kids shape a healthy pursuit of innocence, one that actually desires to be in right standing with our maker, with our neighbor, with our parents, and doesn’t just feel like I have to demean you in order to feel righteous. We have to teach our kids how to pursue significance in a healthy way. We have to show our kids the blessing of having a healthy identity and the potential destruction of adopting unhealthy identities. And so oftentimes, as parents, I think it does. It revolutionizes our thinking, cause we look at our kids and right now we tend to think I need to make sure they have a good sweater, I need to make sure they have a good lunch right, and we have the opportunity, as parents, to give them so much more, to teach them something that, to be perfectly honest, most of us didn’t have our parents teach us, and we’ve had to walk a road of hurt because of it. But if we can help of this next generation to have this awareness, oh wow, they’d just be so amazing for them. There could be no greater gift that we could give our kids.

Julie Hilsen: 34:10

I agree, I agree. And you could break it down into sports. You know, like, well, your team lost today, but you still really tried hard and you hit that ball into left field and you made that catch and you gave your teammate a high five and these are all things that make you significant and you’re an important part of that team and it wasn’t your turn to win but you really did a good thing out there and you’re a valuable person, you know, and like that kind of thing where you know when kids think that they fell down or missed the mark, it’s not about getting trophies to everybody, it’s being realistic, say, you know, well, not everybody wins every time, and but it’s okay because you’re strong and you’re fast and you worked hard on your swing and you know, just having that kind of you know it’s not about the result, it’s about the journey, and so our kids can teach us so much. And you know, they’re just little microcosms of things that we’d wanna fix in them are really things that we need to fix in ourselves too.

Cory Rosenke: 35:24

Yeah, it’s very true, it’s really fun. Well, we do have a, and I grieve over this myself, but thankfully I’ve been able to dialogue with my children about it how much I’ve passed on my hurts or my biases right. Or my offenses to my kids, when really I wanna pass on to them love and the pursuit like the, a full awareness of who they are as precious. And I mentioned something earlier. I had said that these five cravings are non-biological cravings and I would urge your listeners to not seek satisfaction in non-biological sources because it won’t work. However well, I fully believe that these cravings could only be satisfied in connection with our maker. I will also say that I feel we are called to reflect these to others. So I can’t be the source of your security. I can’t be. I will let you down. I can’t be the source of your identity, because I’m gonna make mistakes and I’m gonna be someone you don’t wanna identify with at times. But what I can do is I can reflect security and identity and independence and significance and innocence to you, and that is ultimately. If you want a great marriage, be someone who reflects these cravings to your spouse. You can’t be the source. If you try to be the source or if they demand that you be the source, that’s ultimately the definition of codependence, but it won’t work. But you definitely can reflect it to them. In fact, if you don’t reflect it to them, they will starve spiritually. And so when you walk into your workplace, if you’re that person that reflects security, identity, independence, significance, innocence, you will climb the corporate ladder faster than you can snap your fingers. But if you’re the person that threatens security, identity, independence, significance, innocence, you’re out. You’re gonna have a long trail of broken friendships behind you right. And so when we can see others in this way, when we can truly see ourselves in this way, it just revolutionizes our relationships in a good way.

Julie Hilsen: 37:31

Mentally, physically and emotionally. It’s a beautiful, beautiful set of soul cravings. I love it and I’m gonna. I’ll have all this in the show notes because I think it’s really something to hold onto. Thank you so much, Cory.

Cory Rosenke: 37:51

Oh, thank you so much. I have so much to enjoy my conversation with you, thank you