Julie Hilsen (00:09)
Dear God creator, universe, thank you for bringing Jim and I together for this episode. I honor his time, his expertise, his journey, his legacy, his dynasty already. It’s going to be a great conversation. I call in my guides and my Akashic team. I call on the angels. I call on any entity for the highest good that wants to collaborate in this

merging of providing a message of love, providing a message for the highest good. And I ask if Jim’s team wants to collaborate if that’s available that we join to produce this message to bring forth inspiration, joy, hope, humanity to the souls who need it. And just bring forth bring forth this message for the highest good to give hope to give

Salace to give joy and better understanding of ourselves and each other because we’re all connected. We are one and I thank you. Thank you. Thank you every being that’s showing up in their highest ascended way and I look forward to this conversation and I thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, dear friends, and welcome to another episode of Life of Love, where we gather each week to bring forth a message of love, hope, inspiration, and being there for our highest good, however it looks on that day. Like the life of love can look different each day, depending on how we’re feeling, what’s going on in our field. And I’m just really honored to bring forth this message. We have a wonderful guest, Jim Marshall, and he’s coined a

program that’s culminated many, many years of study. And he’s going to share with us his wisdom, his insights, and hopefully we’ll get to know ourselves a little better and the people we love a little better and even the people we think we can’t love. That’s my hope is that we get to understand all humanity better, especially the people we can’t understand. Because it sort of seems to me that

The people that are hardest to understand remind us about something in ourselves we would like to forget or push aside. So that’s sort of a GUI platform we could explore. But first of all, Jim, thanks for being on Life of Love. I’m so delighted to have you and share this space with you.

Jim Marshall (02:45)
Thank you, Julie. I’m glad to be here.

Julie Hilsen (02:47)
Thanks for entertaining my intention. I have never recorded it before, so it might be little clunky.

So Jim, you have come from the halls of academia and the field of life. so I just, I’m really excited for you to share how you came up with your program, Septembix. Am I saying it correctly? Septembix. Yeah, this is just, when I read your information and we were talking about producing this episode, I was really intrigued. And could you share a little bit about what the brainchild of it was?

from or how you were inspired to bring this forward and just let us know, my audience know, give them a tidbit of your perspective on it.

Jim Marshall (03:33)
Okay well the first thing I should say to give you some context is that I am the discoverer of hitherto unknown natural phenomena which greatly aid in the understanding of people from which I created a revolutionary practical philosophic system called Septimics and published it in the book Septimics Hierarchies of Human Phenomena.

Julie Hilsen (04:02)
That’s so juicy. very excited about that. okay, so where did it come from? Was it the Aethers? Was it angels? what, aliens? Like, can you, yeah.

Jim Marshall (04:14)
Okay, well

the story really begins when I was accepted into engineering school at the age of 16. And of course at that time I thought I was going to be engineering physical things as did all the other engineering students such as air foils, electrons, motors and such. But by the time I had my bachelor’s degree it was clear to me that I wanted to engineer the human psyche because

It is the area of greatest unknown and mystery. And more importantly, it is the area in which we as a race are failing miserably. 95 % of the problems in industrialized society are because people don’t understand people, don’t understand the wife, don’t understand the son, don’t understand the boss, don’t understand the employee, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

This is a vast problem that goes in every direction. So to make a long story short, I had a long career as a human development engineer, working one-on-one with hundreds of clients for cumulatively thousands of hours using engineering principles, engineering tactics, engineering devices, and so forth, and to help my clients ascend to higher states.

Julie Hilsen (05:33)
So it begs the question, why weren’t you grabbed up by the sociology or psychology department? Like, how did you stay in the engineering lane?

Jim Marshall (05:42)
Well, first of all, I should tell you a fact which is that when they tested, you know, they give you aptitude tests sometimes. And for me, the three top things were three forms of engineering.

Julie Hilsen (05:57)
See.

Jim Marshall (05:58)
So I was a dyed in the wool engineer. In other words, I went to a top engineering school with 2,000 of us students there. We had our own building, which took up a square block. We were all very much the same. There was a distinct engineering personality, and I have it. So we are very practical people who know how to stay focused on getting the job done.

You see, for a scientist, the product is a theory, like the theory of relativity or the theory of evolution. But for an engineer, the product is a thing that works, whether it’s an air conditioner or an automobile or an airplane or an iPhone, whatever. So it’s a very practical, focused approach.

that takes a certain type of personality and that’s just who I am.

Julie Hilsen (06:56)
Well, that’s right.

Okay, thanks. The question how we’re so individual, each person has their own signature. So how do you know if the human psyche is working? Like, how do you judge that objectively? That the, guess maybe you could go into the barometers or the the checkpoints that you found? Or I’m just really curious how you made the human psyche less subjective and more engineering.

objective.

Jim Marshall (07:28)
Well, let put it through this way. My clients did not know anything about what I did or how I did it. All they knew was there was this guy Jim who was really good at helping people. Go to Jim. you have a drinky problem? Go to Jim. He’ll help you fix it. That’s all they knew. So, which was actually good. And I never exposed.

any of this to them because I kept the focus on the person. Well, a guy comes in and says, you know, I have this big problem with my wife. I don’t know what I’m gonna do. Right? It’s okay. Tell me about it. You know, and then I’m using biofeedback and all of my techniques and theories and everything. And he has no exposure to any of that. See?

Julie Hilsen (07:59)
Mm-hmm.

So

you’re hooking people up to electrodes and putting them through a series of exercises and looking at the biofeedback, breath rate.

Jim Marshall (08:21)
Yes.

Well, best

way, the most concise way I could explain it is I used Socratic dialogue.

Julie Hilsen (08:34)
Okay.

Jim Marshall (08:36)
So my genius was knowing how to ask the right question.

Julie Hilsen (08:40)
That’s such a pearl. mean, shoot, if you know the right question, you can get to the things. That’s the hardest thing for me is knowing what to ask. So that is very admirable.

Jim Marshall (08:47)
Right.

Right and two things

I can add to that. One is the biofeedback gave me this enormous advantage that therapists don’t have because for those of you who don’t know every time you think a thought the electromagnetic field around your body changes and this can easily be observed on a meter because the resistance to your body changes as you think.

Moreover, particular categories of thoughts and ideas have particular electronic signatures.

Julie Hilsen (09:29)
Like I’m familiar with the Hawkins scale and how the emotions have a unique frequency. So that’s something we’ve talked about on this show, but if people want to look into the Hawkins emotional scale, it gives you another example of what Jim’s talking about here. And I’m not sure if you worked with him or you know who he is with your expertise. Maybe you guys collaborated.

Jim Marshall (09:34)
Right.

Right.

Julie Hilsen (09:57)
I’m sure you’re not a lone wolf here. Do you have people that…

Jim Marshall (10:00)
Well, there’s a community out there. I mean, had colleagues, you know, and I sort of started investigating this area when I was about 19. So, and as soon as I got into it, see, I was already very well educated by then. So, it was very easy for me to absorb information. So, I…

studied a variety of different practices and all of them were grist for my mill. So there was a lot of, I got a reputation early on as somebody who’s good at this. So.

Julie Hilsen (10:30)
So good.

huh.

Jim Marshall (10:36)
I had this long career as a human development engineer. All of my clients improved as a result of our interaction. But more interestingly, I started to notice that I could predict the outcome of the session.

Julie Hilsen (10:43)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (10:51)
Let me put it to you this way. As the human development engineer, I understand humans the way an aeronautical engineer understands airplanes, the way an automotive engineer understands automobiles, the way a computer engineer understands computers. I understand this medium very well in a very specific scientific way where I could use these techniques.

Julie Hilsen (10:52)
Yeah.

So computer, that’s so beautiful.

Jim Marshall (11:18)
and the biofeedback would guide me into it. So for example when I would get a new client I would have them sit down and they would do a long interview no charge for the interview I’m just getting data and the person is connected to the biofeedback right. So I’m asking things like how to get along with your mother how to get along with your wife how’s your job you know general things right.

Julie Hilsen (11:46)
Like a

lie detector test, but they don’t know it.

Jim Marshall (11:49)
Yeah,

but it’s, I’m not asking questions like that, know, did you steal the money? I’m not, but.

Julie Hilsen (11:55)
See ya.

But it just begs

the situation, like, did you have to do lie detector testing? Like, was that part of your… No, okay, this is just…

Jim Marshall (12:06)
No.

I know a lot about lie detectors and I can tell you they are very unreliable for the purpose for which they are used.

Julie Hilsen (12:10)
Yeah.

I have heard that.

Jim Marshall (12:17)
And it is a provable fact that they give both false positives and false negatives, which is why they’re inadmissible in a court of law.

Julie Hilsen (12:28)
So, your biofeedback, you’re able to ask them a series of questions and see the hot points that triggers people saying right now, yeah, no.

Jim Marshall (12:37)
Right, I wasn’t trying to find out if they robbed a bank. I was just,

like I would say to the guy, know, he’s just talking, right? We’re just having a conversation. So, you know, how do you feel about your mother? And the meter goes, boom! I write it down, see? I make a note of exactly what the reaction was. But then I say, later on. So we get in this session, right? And I say,

Julie Hilsen (12:48)
huh.

mother issues.

That’s fair, yeah.

Jim Marshall (13:04)
tell me about your relationship with your mother and the needle goes boom! Same reaction. Same manifestation.

Julie Hilsen (13:11)
Yeah.

Well, our bodies are conduits of what’s going on in our field, right? Like we have to process everything for our bodies and we get really good at like pushing it down. I call it the trash compactor, like push it way down. You don’t have to deal with that right now. And then that shows up as something else later or more explosive arguments because you didn’t deal with it when it was a little thing, you let it. I love how this sinks in. It sinks in.

Jim Marshall (13:19)
What? What?

Right.

Yeah.

That’s right.

That’s why I’ve

been meditating on a daily basis for 40 years. So that doesn’t happen to me. You know, I mean, in general now, I don’t get upset or worried or angry or anything like that. And in the rare occasion when it does, I’m in session the next day and it’s gone.

Julie Hilsen (14:04)
you’re able to clear it. huh. And you, yeah.

Jim Marshall (14:06)
So I’m able to maintain my equanimity no matter what’s going on. And as an example,

we had very, very close relative of mine was murdered a few years ago. And everybody in the family was hysterical because this was a wonderful guy, a father and a grandfather, and he had a profession. And I was the only one in the family who wasn’t upset. It didn’t mean I didn’t love him.

Julie Hilsen (14:17)
I’m sorry.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jim Marshall (14:33)
You know, I had very kind words to say about him. I grew up with this person. It’s just that I maintain my equanimity. So if the government came to me and said, we’re gonna have you executed tomorrow, I’d say, okay.

What time do you want me to be there? So you can get to what I’m working toward is an angelic state where I do not react to anything.

Julie Hilsen (14:57)
completely neutral.

Jim Marshall (15:01)
I just don’t react. So for example, I had root canal on a live tooth. They could not deaden the tooth after many attempts. Okay, and I just sat there. Now this was a level of pain. It goes almost into like a psychedelic experience. It’s so severe. And you know, when he was done, I just got up and went home. You know, and I dealt with it in meditation.

Julie Hilsen (15:07)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And do you feel like it’s a lot of non-judgment? Like you just, it is what it is and you just, and I think, don’t mean to, I’m not belittling that ability because it’s a huge ability, but also you’re predisposed to be better at it with your engineering mind, right? Like, so that’s your superpower, which is.

Jim Marshall (15:32)
Yeah, that’s right.

Hmm.

Julie Hilsen (15:51)
So awesome because so many people go through their lives and they don’t even know what their superpower is. So have you helped people to determine what their superpower could be or how are you using your Septemics

Jim Marshall (16:05)
Well, first of all, before we get into September, we were talking about the human development engineer. I helped the person deal with whatever the person wanted to deal with. Whatever that was, didn’t matter.

Julie Hilsen (16:12)
yeah.

so you didn’t look at their their triggers and say, let’s start here. You asked them what they wanted because sometimes people hide.

Jim Marshall (16:25)
Well,

sometimes.

Basically, I followed the biofeedback and I found that to be an infallible pathway to enlightenment for the person.

Julie Hilsen (16:30)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (16:37)
So the thing that we took up first might not be the thing that the person would want to take up first, but it was a thing that the biofeedback told me we should take up first. And because of that, it would resolve just like that.

Julie Hilsen (16:49)
Okay.

They’re like, all right, I love this and could, yeah.

Jim Marshall (16:55)
So what happened as far as

getting to Septemics is this. I started to notice I could predict the outcome of the session. So I never told this to anyone, but I made notes, which is what anybody in the STEM subjects would do. You you make notes. And as the years went by, I came to realize that the client would be at a specific level that I knew about.

Julie Hilsen (17:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (17:23)
on a specific scale that I knew about. And as a result of our interaction, he would go up to the next level up on that scale.

Julie Hilsen (17:33)
And that’s why you’re saying

angelic or ascended master because that would be a high scale.

Jim Marshall (17:39)
Well, I’m just mentioned angelic because that’s where I’m headed as a person. that’s my goal. That’s my goal. mean, most you yeah, say to him, what’s your goal? I want to make million dollars. What’s your goal? I want to win an Academy Award, stay another guy. What’s your goal? I want to marry a beautiful woman. He asked me, well, my goal is to become an angel.

Julie Hilsen (17:44)
Yeah, we’re all spiritual beings, right?

love it.

Jim Marshall (18:04)
So that’s next big thing for me, you know. So anyway, every day, I’m an inch closer to that.

Julie Hilsen (18:07)
Mm-hmm.

So good.

Well, thank you for sharing this. I’m just curious, did you get to the point where you didn’t even need to look at the biofeedback? You could just see it on them?

Jim Marshall (18:20)
Yes, yes.

On myself, I stopped using the biofeedback many years ago. I was able to perceive my own mind externally from me. See, I’m so separated from my mind now, I can just look at it, see what’s there. I don’t need the biofeedback. Now, for many years, I did use it and

Julie Hilsen (18:28)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (18:48)
How many thousands of times do you have to do it and say, yeah, that’s what I thought it was. Yeah, that’s what I thought it was. There’s a point where you just say, I know what it is. I know how to look for it. I know how to locate it. So on myself, that’s why what I do now is describable as meditation. I’m sitting in a room by myself.

Julie Hilsen (18:57)
Right, like you had the data, had affirmation.

You got it.

Jim Marshall (19:17)
with my eyes closed, there’s no paper, no pen, nothing, just me. Okay? And there’s this fantastic transformation that goes on within my mind. I’m literally, literally removing pieces from my subconscious.

So my subconscious keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller and So that’s where the reactions come from, the subconscious.

Julie Hilsen (19:44)
Right, that’s why it’s so baffling. We’re so stymied by our reactions, under reactions, over reactions, because cognitively, consciously, it’s not there. It’s deep, it’s subconscious in our reptilian brain or wherever it is, or our auras, or… You need help.

Jim Marshall (20:04)
So what happened

was this manifestation where I could predict the outcome of the session, this just kept happening. This happened thousands and thousands of times. And every time it happened, it verified my hypothesis because the client didn’t know anything about this. You see? So by 1995, I had simply observed and written down

Julie Hilsen (20:24)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (20:33)
about 32 scales of varying lengths where it was observable and indisputable that the person would go from this level to this level. It happened again and again and again. And I would see it in the session and then I would go out in the real world and I’d see it right in front of my face and people. yeah, that’s the same thing. So.

Also in 95, I was pondering one day a difficult client and I realized that this person was at a level on one of those scales that I had not previously observed. And this was a scale that I had been using for decades. And so by then I absolutely knew it was correct. So when I saw this

Julie Hilsen (21:22)
that you had found a new thing.

Jim Marshall (21:24)
When I found this seventh level, it was obvious to me where to insert it into the sixth level scale. That was not a question. And when I inserted it, the scale then manifested mathematically. So all of these mathematical data jumped out at me from this. And it went in that moment from being a line, which is what a scale is, to a plane, which is a whole body of data.

So now I had this whole body of data with all of these interlocking bits that fit together like a Chinese puzzle. Okay? And I looked at the

Julie Hilsen (22:04)
sacred.

It to me is ringing out sacred geometry. It’s ringing out completion. It’s ringing out beauty. okay.

Jim Marshall (22:08)
Right. Right.

Right. That’s right. So when I looked at this, now I should tell you, for those of you who may be allergic to math, I took 26 semesters of math and loved every minute of it. Okay. This is a very real thing to me. Okay. So I see math in everything. If I’m brushing my teeth, I see a formula go by, you know. If rabbit goes by, I see the formula, you know. So, well.

Julie Hilsen (22:40)
You

Jim Marshall (22:43)
When this happened, I said, well, whatever this is that I discovered, it has to be natural law because it has mathematics embedded in it. And anything that has mathematics embedded in it, like, for example, the Fibonacci sequence, is natural law.

Julie Hilsen (22:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jim Marshall (23:05)
So then I thought, huh, I wonder how many of these other scales that I have, right, because I have 31 other ones, are actually seven level scales that had not been developed all the way because I wasn’t developing anything. I was just helping my clients and making notes. So, right.

Julie Hilsen (23:05)
top view of

You’re observing and recording and

seeing that because your mind sees patterns, you…

Jim Marshall (23:32)
Right, right. Well, so then I thought, huh, let me look into this. See, because by then I knew what I was looking for. See, I wanted to see if these other scales were going to manifest like this one that I had found. So to make a long story short, I studied all these other scales in a short period of time. They all went to seven levels and they all manifested mathematically.

So now I had 32 scales all based on direct empirical observation that were all seven levels and all had mathematics embedded in them. I said, whoa, I could go from helping people by the hundreds, which is what I had been doing as a human development engineer, to helping people by the millions.

If I put this in a book and get it out so people can have this data, so I’m gonna have to write a book. So the first draft of the book was completed in December of 95. And I then sent it in a transcript form to colleagues of mine, all of whom had graduate degrees in a variety of subjects. And they all responded very positively.

Julie Hilsen (24:36)
Yeah.

Jim Marshall (24:56)
I had no idea what kind of response I was going to get. They loved it. They had different responses, but distinctly positive responses. And that told me this is exactly what I think it is, which is a new subject that can really help people because it’s based on natural law. Now, some people have asked me, what book is your book like? And I have to tell them, having gone to school for 28 years, that

Julie Hilsen (25:12)
Yeah.

Jim Marshall (25:24)
I don’t think there’s ever been a book like this before, at least on Earth, maybe someplace else.

Each one of these scales is expressed in what you could call a table or a spreadsheet. It’s like a whole body of data. It’s on one page and you look at it and you see all the component parts of this subject. And that table is very similar to the periodic table of elements.

Julie Hilsen (25:50)
my gosh.

Jim Marshall (25:51)
Now, before Dmitry Mendeleev invented the periodic table, there was chemistry, but he revolutionized it by making it easier to understand, easier to teach, and easier to learn, and easier to remember. So, that’s what’s happened here. Now, what I’d like to do is tell you the names of the 35 scales.

so you’ll know exactly what subject matter is covered in the book. Okay, so there are 24 scales which I call individual scales, meaning they apply primarily to an individual, and 11 which apply primarily to a group which I call group scales. So these are the individual scales. The scale of basic purposes, the scale of personal influence, the scale of choice, the scale of permeation, the scale of thought.

Julie Hilsen (26:24)
Okay, yeah.

Jim Marshall (26:48)
the scale of identity, the scale of evaluation, the scale of motivation, the scale of control, the scale of stopping, the scale of scholarship, the scale of literacy, the scale of human ability, the scale of memory, the scale of spiritual identity, the scale of mental deletion, the scale of aberration, the scale of physical fitness, the scale of justification, the scale of belief, the scale of equanimity, the scale of attack, the scale of conflict, and the scale of reaction.

And these are the group scales, the scale of relationships, the scale of life spheres, the scale of government, the scale of civilization, the scale of survival, the scale of management, the scale of exchange, the scale of communication, the scale of allegiance, the scale of sexuality, and the scale of politics. Any one of these scales by itself could dramatically improve the life of the user. And let me give you an example of how that

So I mentioned the scale of motivation. One of the most important things to know about a person is the person’s motivation. That’s how the police solve crimes. They look for a motive. They say, this guy has no motive to commit this crime, so we’re not going to pay attention to him. But they say, wait a minute. There’s an insurance policy, half a million dollar insurance policy, and the wife is the beneficiary. we have a motive. You see? No, she didn’t do it.

Julie Hilsen (27:48)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (28:17)
But that’s how they go about it. So you could ask yourself, what is my husband’s motivation toward me? What is my son’s motivation toward me? What is my grandmother’s motivation toward me? What is my boss’s motivation toward me? Now, every time you spot it, you have an epiphany. You say, that’s why grandma does that. Because she has this motivation. See?

Julie Hilsen (28:40)
It does help.

Yeah, and you don’t take it personally because it’s just their frame, their filter that they use to interact.

Jim Marshall (28:49)
But that’s

So you could do that exercise I just described for 300 or 400 or 500 different people. You could go through everybody you’ve ever known and do that.

Julie Hilsen (29:03)
And you

could get things done faster, like in the community, because you can get straight to their sweet spot of how to relate to them. I can see the power of it. I love it. I love this.

Jim Marshall (29:11)
Right. Exactly.

Then you can take this same scale and use the reverse vector. What is my motivation toward my boss? What is my motivation toward my pastor? What is my motivation toward my Uncle Joe? You see?

Julie Hilsen (29:22)
Mm-hmm.

And all of

sudden you have increased consciousness. Because sometimes we do things to manipulate and until we call ourselves on it, we don’t realize we’re manipulating.

Jim Marshall (29:32)
Right.

That’s right. Whatever the motive is, a good motive or a bad motive, okay? The tiniest motive is love, okay? So maybe that’s what you spot. But every time you spot it, you have a realization. Say, that explains why I get along so well with Gertrude. See? So you could use it that way. See, on the reverse vector.

Julie Hilsen (29:42)
Mm-hmm.

you

Hmm.

Jim Marshall (30:05)
another 300 or 400 or 500 or 600 times. So by the time you finish this exercise and you know your motivation toward everybody in your life and everybody in your life’s motivation toward you, your mind is much clearer. You see what’s going on. You see? Now that’s one scale.

Julie Hilsen (30:28)
Yeah.

And that’s a lot of noise you get out of your field. It’s a lot of noise. Have you ever worked with, do you know what the thing is called tapping, energetic? So you’d be like, though I’m frustrated with the way I’m acting and I’m being selfish in this relationship, I completely love and accept myself. And then you go through and you go,

Jim Marshall (30:33)
Right.

I know about tapping.

Uh-huh.

Julie Hilsen (30:54)
I grew up feeling vulnerable or I was abandoned and I’m just protecting myself. Everyone wants to be safe. You know, I’m just normal. I’m really a good person. I shouldn’t have responded that way, but I completely love and accept myself. So you’re going through all these energetic points and releasing it. And it’s very powerful if you can spend the time in doing it. But I’m wondering with your clients when they hit these…

Jim Marshall (31:18)
Okay.

Julie Hilsen (31:22)
frequencies that you’re like, wow, they need to move through this. Do you do it energetically for them or are they participating with it?

Jim Marshall (31:26)
Yes.

Well, basically

I have thousands and thousands of techniques that I have garnered and developed and more than 99 % of them fit something specific. In other words, let’s say the person has trouble communicating with his father, right? So I could say something like, what could you say to your father?

Julie Hilsen (31:36)
Thanks.

Jim Marshall (31:55)
He says, I could say bop bop bop. Okay, and what could your father say to you? Well, he could say bop bop bop. See, and after a while he says, now I see what’s going on with me and my father.

Julie Hilsen (32:09)
And I love the word could. You’re not saying what would he say. You’re saying what could he, what’s a possibility? It’s setting up a new timeline. Love it, love it.

Jim Marshall (32:17)
Right, it’s positive.

See,

the whole thing is very positive. I’m a very positive person. My whole approach to it was positive. So the person’s optimism and reach was always expanding. know, like, what are you absolutely sure will happen in the next minute?

says, my heart will still be beating. Very good. What are you absolutely sure will happen in the next two minutes? See? And you can get this out to where, what are you absolutely sure will happen in the next 10 years? What are you absolutely sure will happen in the next century? See?

Julie Hilsen (33:06)
Is that for people

with fear or what would that, is that a multi-layered thing?

Jim Marshall (33:10)
Well,

there are lot of different ways of looking at it, but it’s a technique. Now that’s a general technique. It doesn’t fit anything specific, but it works really well. You have to just know when to use it on the person. See? There are people who are so uncertain that they have trouble with that. You know? Yeah, there are people who are like, what are you certain will happen the next minute?

Julie Hilsen (33:15)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I bet.

Jim Marshall (33:39)
I’m not certain anything will happen in the next minute. Okay, see? But most people, you can take them on this and build it up. And after a while, the guy’s like, whoa. You know, and he has a big realization. Now, the realization might not have anything to do with what we talked about. might not have anything to do with what he previously disclosed. You know, he might say,

Julie Hilsen (33:44)
Mm-hmm.

you

Jim Marshall (34:06)
I just realized that I’m from another planet or something, you know, give me anything. The point is he’s having an epiphany, which means he’s getting some insight. And that is exactly what Septemics does. What it does it without anyone being there to help you with it. So let me go back to the story that I started telling before, because I never really finished. So.

Julie Hilsen (34:10)
You

Mmm, it’s beautiful.

yeah.

Jim Marshall (34:36)
So now I had these skills and I had to write this book, right? I’ve got to write this down so people can use it. I’ve got something here. I spent the next 25 years of my life working on this book.

is you have to realize, first of all, I had to discover the phenomena. Here’s a new phenomena. And I pretty much told you how that was done in the sessions, although I did find three more scales while I was writing the book. Then I had to take all of this data and I had to use it to construct a workable, philosophic system. Simply having the scales is not enough.

So I had to develop this into a whole body of data, like the periodic table of elements. If you look at the periodic table of elements, there is massive information in that table, massive about matter, okay? Now, I was a whiz in chemistry, so that for me, that was like a beautiful thing, you know? That I could see all of this information about all the matter in the universe.

Julie Hilsen (35:31)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (35:46)
organized horizontally and vertically into categories and really maybe easily understand what chemistry was about. That’s what these tables are.

So for example, I talked about the scale of basic purposes, okay? Every human being has one of seven basic purposes and they’re in this scale and they’re in an hierarchy. And when you find what your basic purpose is, it’s a life-changing moment. Because what happens is you throw out the other six. You say, they’re not for me. This is me, this is what I’m about.

Julie Hilsen (36:17)
Mmm, it is.

Great.

Jim Marshall (36:27)
This is my basic purpose, see? And then your life comes into focus. Now I see why I like this and I didn’t like this. Now I understand why Betty didn’t like me. Now I understand why I get along with Fred. And you’ll have all of this going on, see? Will you understand yourself? Now you can find other people’s basic purposes too. And it’s the same type of a thing.

Julie Hilsen (36:37)
Thank

Jim Marshall (36:54)
For example, I’m a serious student of military science and I studied World War II at great length. As I was studying, because I started studying it when I was in my teens, and I would see that Hitler would do certain things and I would say, why would he do that? know, military science has been around for thousands of years. There’s certain things that we know you should do and know you should not do.

And everybody in military science all over the world knows these things.

Julie Hilsen (37:27)
these strategies like the what’s that book the art of war it’s like

Jim Marshall (37:31)
Right, Sun Tzu. We know from studying Alexander, from studying Caesar, this is not, now, so I would get to another thing that Hitler did and I say, why would he do that? That doesn’t make any sense, see? From a military science point of view. Well, when I discovered the scale and I realized the lowest level of the scale,

Level seven, the purpose is to destroy. And when I realized Hitler’s purpose was to destroy, then it all made sense to me. He wasn’t just destructive to the Allies. He was destructive to the Wehrmacht. He was destructive to Germany. He was destructive to his own family. That’s who that type of a person is.

then I understood why he did these things. They made sense to me. Now, if somebody not at that level, somebody sane like Albert Speer, who was a high-ranking Nazi, he was not crazy and he was not evil, even though he was mixed up in this thing.

would have been a different outcome. They could have won that war. But Hitler did these crazy, stupid things that any kid who’s studying military science says, that’s not the right thing to do. His generals kept telling him this over and over and over. And he kept…

Julie Hilsen (39:00)
Well, thank goodness,

because then we could defeat him and stop that reign of terror. Yeah, yeah.

Jim Marshall (39:06)
Yeah, well that’s what you get when you have a loony toon in charge.

His generals knew he was nuts. There were many attempts to assassinate him.

And the one in particular where he actually was injured, we know about those, the movie and the book and everything about it. But there are many plots to kill him, because they knew he was crazy. I mean, so that’s a perfect example of how when I discovered the scale, this whole body of data became clear to me. I wasn’t going around scratching my head anymore saying,

Julie Hilsen (39:27)
Yeah.

Jim Marshall (39:42)
What sense does this make? From the middle, it didn’t make any sense. That’s what I’m saying.

Julie Hilsen (39:46)
So

did you make sense out of the election? mean, today we got the results and did you know the outcome before? Yeah, I figured you would.

Jim Marshall (39:54)
Yes, I knew the outcome before.

Yeah. And I also predicted five months ahead that Trump would win in 2016.

But I’ve been doing stuff like that my whole life, so that’s ordinary stuff for me. So anyway.

Julie Hilsen (40:05)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jim Marshall (40:12)
I have a proxy.

Julie Hilsen (40:13)
So you have your book and you made it digestible and

app, you know, there’s an application to it. It’s not just, the data is huge, but you can lead people down the path to integrate and digest it.

Jim Marshall (40:18)
Right, right, so.

Right, right, so here’s what’s interesting.

I went out of my way to not make this seem like math.

If you read this book, there is very little reference to math. Now there were a few scales where I had to explain something about math just so the scale would make sense to you.

And I do because you have to realize I started school when I was three and I have been involved in education my entire life to this very day. So I know a lot about how to explain things to people so they would get it.

Julie Hilsen (41:04)
Yeah, I imagine you need some kind of percentage or, you know, this this happens most of the time you would go here or I don’t I don’t know how did you work the math in without seeming mathy.

Jim Marshall (41:17)
I started tutoring people when I was 14 years old. Okay? I’m still doing it. I’m very good at it. It’s like detective work. You have to figure out what it is that this guy doesn’t understand. So my whole tutoring approach is called student-centered teaching. I’m not focused on the subject. I’m not focused on me. I’m focused on the student.

So I carefully observed the student second by second to see is he getting this? Did he understand what I just said? And I’ve learned a lot about it. For example, I would never say to a student, you know what this word means? Because most of the time he’s just gonna say yes. I wouldn’t do that. I would say, do you know what the word quotidian means?

See? And if I don’t get a correct answer in one second, I say, okay, let’s think it up. Here it is. See? And then he reads it. I see what that means. And he goes back to the paragraph and said, well, now this makes sense to me. So that’s like one tiny little example, but I’m very good at sort of looking at it from the student’s point of view. Now I should tell you that this book was rewritten at least a half a dozen times.

Each time it got clearer and clearer and clearer because my intent from the beginning was to help the people of earth with this material.

And I know I succeeded at making this accessible to people because it’s been 28 and a half years now since the original version has come out. And I’ve been watching people respond to this. They get it. They get it. You can just open the book up and put it in front of the guy and he looks at me he says, yeah, I see. This makes sense to me.

It’s like putting a lens up in front of yourself, holding up a lens and looking at yourself in the mirror or looking at somebody else through that lens. You see clearly. You see the person clearly. And I’ll give you an example. A few months ago, I’m a single guy. A few months ago, I met this beautiful blonde. And there was obvious attraction between us.

Julie Hilsen (43:34)
Yeah, without emotion, it’s just it’s objective. Yeah.

Jim Marshall (43:48)
right from the beginning, right? So now we’re going through the usual stuff, you know, where do you live, what’s your job, what do you like to do for recreation, you know, all that stuff, And going back and forth, right? And as we’re communicating, I’m starting to notice, huh, she’s low on this scale. And then the next time, she’s low on this scale. And then the next time, she’s low on this scale. And after a few more of those, I said, am I crazy?

Julie Hilsen (43:58)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (44:17)
This is a downscaled person. This person is near the bottom of a whole bunch of scales. Those are the people who give you trouble.

Julie Hilsen (44:19)
You’re like, this is…

Well, it depends on what kind of project you’re into, I guess. What you’re up, you can sign up for it. Yeah, right, right. Like, what’s your motive?

Jim Marshall (44:30)
That’s right. But I knew the kind of project I had in mind, right? Okay, so I was not hiring

her to be a secretary, right? So I said to her, no thanks, pass. She was shocked, shocked. She couldn’t believe it.

Julie Hilsen (44:52)
It’s like I thought we had this connection. Like, I’m so attracted to you.

Jim Marshall (44:57)
She was so beautiful that I was probably the first guy in her life who did that to her.

Julie Hilsen (45:00)
Yeah.

Jim Marshall (45:05)
And she was so shocked she said to me, who do you think you are? And I did not say to her the correct answer, is, I’m the guy who knows Septemics. Because it wouldn’t have meant anything to her.

Julie Hilsen (45:09)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jim Marshall (45:19)
Now most guys probably more than 90 % would have jumped right in both feet and had a train wreck three months or six months later. Right? So this is very useful information and I use this continuously. Now goes the other way too. For example when I first moved to Arizona I met somebody who I in our first conference I could see

Julie Hilsen (45:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jim Marshall (45:48)
This was an upscale person. spot, this person is high on this scale. This person is high on this scale. This person is high on this scale. This is an upscale person. This is somebody I want in my life, right? Now, we’ve been associated now for nine years. It’s been great. Because I know how upscale this person is. Now, it’s not that the person is upscale on every scale, because very few people are like that. But…

Julie Hilsen (46:15)
you

Jim Marshall (46:16)
on the skills where she’s down skill, I could spot that too. And I could sort of tip toe around it.

Julie Hilsen (46:23)
You navigate the landmines. It’s not fair. It’s just not fair. I never want to…

Jim Marshall (46:25)
Because I know where they are. know where the bodies are buried. I can just go around them.

So I do this all the time with people, all the time. It’s a continuous… Using this material is as difficult for me as drinking water.

Julie Hilsen (46:44)
Do you have siblings?

Jim Marshall (46:46)
I have three sisters.

Julie Hilsen (46:47)
Yeah. Do they, are they entertained by this or are they driven crazy? They don’t.

Jim Marshall (46:51)
They don’t know anything about it.

No, they’re not interested. I I gave them a free copy of the e-book, I said, you know, just as a gift, you know. I’m sure they never read it. I’m sure they never will read it. They have never asked me about it because I understand them. know who they are, you know.

Julie Hilsen (46:57)
huh.

That’s relatable.

Yeah. no.

Jim Marshall (47:12)
So that’s not a problem for

me or for them. I figured I’ll give them a copy. That way they can’t say, well, why didn’t you give me a copy? You’ll get used to the copy. So I didn’t expect them to read it. So I mean, I’m an intellectual. I’m a polymathic intellectual, and they’re not. So they’re interested in watching the World Series, going out to dinner, going on a cruise, stuff like that.

None of those things interest me. So anyway, this is really useful data to people. I cannot overemphasize that. This book will improve your life.

Julie Hilsen (47:41)
Mm-hmm.

Have you ever applied it to like babies?

Jim Marshall (48:01)
huh.

Julie Hilsen (48:01)
Maybe it wouldn’t change anything because you know, like what comes from your heart and being a parent you might know. But that, just begs the question to me, like how it could change a dynamic of a relationship really early on and set a path.

Jim Marshall (48:07)
Right.

Yes, yes.

I have a 32 year old son, okay. So I was able to find his basic purpose when he was I guess about 14, something like that. Not younger than that, more like 12.

Julie Hilsen (48:31)
Wow. So

you could give him the books that he could need or show him a movie or whatever you could expose him, take him on vacations that exposed him to that kind of purpose. Wow. Was that really fun to do that or?

Jim Marshall (48:44)
Right. But knowing,

my knowing his basic purpose, which is not the same as my basic purpose, enabled me to know this is the type of person that I’m dealing with, Right. Could relate to him. So it’s like, I have had this philosophy about people since I was, I don’t know, in my 20s.

Julie Hilsen (48:59)
And you could relate to him and not judge him.

Jim Marshall (49:13)
which is that some people are rabbits, some people are fishes, some people are birds, et cetera, et cetera. So if a person is a rabbit, rabbits can’t swim very well and they surely can’t fly, but boy, can they run. Let them run. All right? If a person is a fish, he can’t walk, let alone run. He can’t fly in most cases and…

Julie Hilsen (49:40)
Yeah, the flying fish.

Jim Marshall (49:41)
He can

swim really well, so let him swim. See? So I had this idea sort of already that, so my whole philosophy is find the best thing in the person and focus on that. And that’s what I do.

Julie Hilsen (49:54)
What a gift.

Jim Marshall (49:55)
You know, I had a buddy who’s now deceased and we grew up in the same neighborhood rooting for the same baseball team. I knew him since I was four years old, okay? And this whole time we were rooting for the same baseball team. So whatever else went on, whatever other differences, we would go right to that, you know, how do you think the team is doing and what do you think they’re gonna do? See, he was right there.

Julie Hilsen (50:20)
Hmm.

So every phase of your lives, no matter what transition you’re going through or what hardship he was going through, you can always relate on that common interest of the team. That’s cool.

Jim Marshall (50:37)
Right, right.

And that’s just sort of how I learned a long time ago how to deal with people. Some people are interested in some things, some people are interested in other things, you know? So that’s how I handled my clients. What is the client interested in? See? The client is coming to me because he has something he wants to handle.

and I get him to tell me that and that’s what the session is focused on. None of it is about me or my techniques or my ideas. None of it. It’s all about him and I listen carefully see and as I’m listening the meter is telling me this is going on this so we get on to mother right you know

Tell me about your relationship with your mother. Boom. He starts telling me about bada bada bada bada bada boy does he tell me right? He’s got a lot to tell me right? Well as he’s telling me I’m watching the my own feedback on it. It’s telling me specific things like He’s got secrets from his mother see And then I can say Do you have a secret from your mother see and the needle goes boom?

And he says, well, now that you ask me, yes. tell me about that. See? So I’m zeroing right in on it. And then he’ll have a big release from that, a big epiphany. I can see that’s where our relationship went off the track, you know. I didn’t tell her about that. And then he’s very happy about that. And then the next day, we do something else, whatever he wants to take up.

Julie Hilsen (52:15)
Nice. And then you could, could you tell how long you’d be working with that individual based on the patterns? Like you’d be like, well, we’re going to work together for three months or we can get through this. Like, did you have a, you know, did it help you set the timeframe of the, of the treatment?

Jim Marshall (52:30)
Well, let me say this.

Let me say this. As regards to the specific thing we were looking at at that time, it rarely was a long thing. It was usually measured in minutes, 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 35 minutes. And 35 minutes into it he says, I just realized my mother looks like Zorro. Okay, you know, doesn’t matter to me what it is, you know? It’s his realization, see?

Julie Hilsen (52:55)
Yeah.

is breakthrough.

Jim Marshall (52:59)
And he’s happy with this. He says, that explains all the bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. So as far as time, that’s the order of magnitude. As far as working with the client, I’ve had many clients that I’ve worked with for years and years and years, and they just kept getting smarter and better and more ethical and more responsible, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Julie Hilsen (53:08)
Hmm.

Wow, seems like you could help Trump pick his new cabinet and the people on his team. That would be nice.

Jim Marshall (53:31)
Well, if they were interested in it, not everybody is interested in that and that goes to Septemics also because I tell everybody about Septemics. Never tell any living person that person’s level on any scale because it’s counterproductive and unethical.

Julie Hilsen (53:35)
Yeah.

Jim Marshall (53:51)
So let me explain that. You know how the wife goes to the husband and she says, you know what’s wrong with you? You’re not ambitious enough. You need to get a better job. You need to make more. That’s not helping him. That’s making him want to get a divorce even if he doesn’t say so. What you should say is, Fred, look at this book I got here, the Septemics book. Take a look at this. See? And he’ll go through it and he’ll figure out, I see what’s going on with me. See?

Julie Hilsen (54:03)
Hmm.

Jim Marshall (54:20)
and it’ll have its own epiphany. Now the other thing is people don’t like to be evaluated and they certainly don’t like to be invalidated. See?

Julie Hilsen (54:22)
if he’s open to it, you know?

you

Right?

It’s very disempowering. It’s judgmental and shame. It brings in shame and those are low emotional.

Jim Marshall (54:35)
Right. So I don’t do that.

Right. Even

if somebody asks me, know, like a client would ask me, what do think I should do with this guy? I would never answer that question. I would say, well, what do you think? And we’re off to the races because as soon as I do that, he’s going to tell me, bop-a-da-bop-a-da-bop-a-da-bop-a-da-bop-a-da-bop, and I’m going to get biofeedback and I’m going to steer him into it. And 10 minutes later, he’s going to say, now I see I should fire this guy. See? And he’s going to be happy about that.

Julie Hilsen (55:10)
Yeah, and you don’t have any, they can’t hold you accountable for choices that they made because they made it on their own.

Jim Marshall (55:18)
That’s right. Exactly. So now in the book, I give actual examples of deceased people so that people who study these people can see, that’s what a person looks like at that level. Like I mentioned, they’re being at level seven on the scale of basic purposes, okay? On that same scale, George Washington was on level three. Abraham Lincoln was at level two.

Jesus was at level one. So, you know, it’s very easy for me to understand people because of this. Or you could look at it the other way. You could say, I was able to figure this out because I could understand people. I mean, it’s a cause and an effect, you know. So, let me give you a definition of Septemics so your people will know exactly what we’re talking about here. Okay.

Julie Hilsen (55:59)
Nice.

Perfect.

Jim Marshall (56:09)
Septemics is a philosophical science based on the fact that many phenomena related to humans occur in a sequence of seven levels.

Literally, word Septemics means of or pertaining to seven. Septem means seven in Latin.

Julie Hilsen (56:29)
And it’s crazy because it’s a ninth month. And I just learned how we’re really supposed to have 13 months and then we’d have 28 days. If we had 13 months, it’d be 28 day months. And we’d have a full moon and a new moon in each month. It would all work out. But would that make it, that would make September what?

Jim Marshall (56:47)
Well, let me back it up a little bit. Let me back it up. The

original Roman calendar had only 10 months. March was the first month.

Julie Hilsen (56:59)
Okay, March was first. But what were the months? It was, okay. Wow. We’ve we’ve just

Jim Marshall (57:01)
So September was the seventh month. It was. Then Julius

Caesar came along. He was the guy who said, let’s make two more months in here during the winter time so we can connect this period. So he’s the guy who invented January and February.

Julie Hilsen (57:26)
Wow. And then we are doing this crazy, you’re in Arizona, so you don’t have to deal with this. But here in the Eastern Standard Time, we just gained an hour, which is so weird to me. It’s just like, I’m just off and I can’t go to bed on time and I don’t want to get up in the morning. It’s just awful.

Jim Marshall (57:37)
Right. Right. Yeah.

Well, since I’ve lived in Arizona and I have adjusted to not having daylight savings time, I can see it’s greatly preferable. It’s very interesting because the year, you’re more in sync with nature that way. There’s not this artificial changing of the clock. So.

Julie Hilsen (57:55)
Yes!

Right. It’s just really.

And then it’s interesting, we have seven days in a week. And in the Bible, it says it takes God seven days to create.

Jim Marshall (58:12)
Yes.

I discussed that in the book. Those were some of the things that led me to think about this in the first place.

Julie Hilsen (58:20)
Mm-hmm,

the sacred seven.

Jim Marshall (58:24)
So anyway, Septemics comprises a collection of scales or sequences, each of which breaks down various human phenomena into a hierarchy of seven steps. There are 35 such scales, each of which is unique. And between them, they span the spectrum of human experience, by which I mean any problem.

Dilemma, situation, difficulty that any person has related to human beings can successfully be analyzed by one or more of these scales, usually more than one.

Julie Hilsen (59:03)
I mean, just more and more, I’m just like, we live in a matrix. Everything is connected. Everything has a pattern. This is all contrived and we’re here trying to figure it all out and do our best, but it’s this game. It’s this showing up as a spiritual being in our bodies and doing our best.

Jim Marshall (59:11)
Yeah.

Julie Hilsen (59:24)
I appreciate this so much. I’ve loved this. How can people get your book? Is it on your website or Amazon?

Jim Marshall (59:31)
Well,

let me say this. I want to invite your listeners to my website, is septemics.com. S-E-P-T-E-M-S. Where you can see what many readers have said about it, what many journalists have written about it, what the reviews are. You can read sections of the book itself, and you can listen to, if you wish, a 15-minute pre-recorded introduction to Septemics, which explains it.

Julie Hilsen (59:37)
Okay, and I’ll put that in the show notes.

Jim Marshall (59:59)
to a new person in 15 minutes. Or if you prefer, there’s an essay which essentially does the same thing. are called, Achieve Your Goals Faster and Easier with Septemics. And you can just read it and it explains the whole thing. If you do all that, you’re probably gonna wanna buy the book.

Julie Hilsen (1:00:01)
Okay.

Alright, because you’re gonna be thirsty for more knowledge and want to advance your level and I love it. Sure, of course!

Jim Marshall (1:00:24)
Do I have time to say something else?

So let me give you an example of how this works to tell you how easy this is. Let’s say you have a couple that’s been dating for two years and they’re talking about getting married. Now wouldn’t it be a reasonable question why does this person want to marry me? I isn’t that a sensible question to ask? I’m not saying you should ask your partner but

Julie Hilsen (1:00:32)
Okay.

Mmm.

Jim Marshall (1:00:53)
You can look in the book because there’s a scale of motivation and there are only seven basic human motivations.

Julie Hilsen (1:00:59)
So if you read it, something will hit and you’ll be like, yeah, I think that’s it. Like you’ll get an intuition about it.

Jim Marshall (1:01:04)
Yeah.

It’s not intuition, it’s observation. So the guy looks in the book, right? He says, the scale of motivation. See, that’s why is she motivated to marry me? So he goes down, right? He knows the woman. He’s been with her for two years, right? So he looks at it, and as he studies it, see, because I explained very clearly what each of these level means and how to spot it, what significance it has.

So after you read it, he’ll say, maybe he’ll say, I can see she wants to me because she loves me. That’s level one on the scale. That’s a good reason. Let’s set the date. But maybe that doesn’t happen. Maybe he says, you know, now that I think about this, I think she wants to marry me because I drive a Lamborghini. I have a 60 foot yacht. I fly my own layer jet. I live.

in a $15 million condo and have $8 million in the back. See, that’s a different motivation. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but he might spot that.

Julie Hilsen (1:02:09)
Mm hmm. Right, but you’d know what you’re getting

into. Like you’d have a prenup or you’d, you’d know what, what you’re getting into and you can make a choice about it.

Jim Marshall (1:02:17)
Right.

Right, so he might say, know, okay, she loves me for my money, but this is a wonderful girl, I just love her and I’m gonna marry her anyway. He might do that. Okay, so now he’s empowered to know how to keep her happy.

Julie Hilsen (1:02:33)
Mm-hmm.

Right? Her love language, they say, is gifts and pampering and experiences. Yeah, which is fair.

Jim Marshall (1:02:40)
Okay.

Right, right. So right, right.

Or no, it might not go that way. It might go another way. It might say, you this woman is a gold digger. I don’t want to marry a gold digger. I want to marry someone who loves me for myself. And he breaks up with her. Now you might think in that case that he’s going be upset about it. That’s not true. He’s not going to be upset. He’s going to be relieved.

Julie Hilsen (1:02:51)
Yeah.

Right.

He’s gonna be relieved.

Jim Marshall (1:03:11)
He’s going

to say, thank you, Julie, for turning me on to this. I dodged the bullet.

Julie Hilsen (1:03:17)
Would it tell the person how to best break up with the other person? Because that’s a tough one, like breaking up with somebody.

Jim Marshall (1:03:23)
It’s tough

one, but there is a scale of communication which is unbelievably powerful, which if you master it makes you a master of communication, which would really facilitate that.

Julie Hilsen (1:03:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:03:37)
So

anyway, he breaks up with her and he’s fine. Now he’s gonna look for somebody and he knows he’s looking for somebody that loves him, So that’s a benefit to him.

Julie Hilsen (1:03:46)
Mm-hmm.

So in like a date or two, he could say, yes, I want to pursue this or no, it just like he wouldn’t waste two years and not waste but have two years to figure out if it’s going to be forever. Yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:03:56)
Right.

Right, right, right.

I ran into a woman like that not long ago where she was very impressed by me, went crazy about me, came to visit me, you know. And, you know, when she found out that I’m not a millionaire, she took off. Never saw her again. Yeah. What a relief. Got rid of that. So, you know, she never said to me,

Julie Hilsen (1:04:18)
And you’re like, thank you. Thank you.

Yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:04:28)
Are you a millionaire? You know, I would have told her no. So, now have you ever noticed how many ugly, elderly, overweight guys have beautiful young wives? Do you notice that? There’s lots of them. I see this all the time. I look at some guy. He’s a dumpy looking guy. I say, and he’s got this gorgeous wife. And I say,

Julie Hilsen (1:04:31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:04:56)
How could this be? What is going on here? I’ll tell you what’s going on here. The 23-year-old beauty queen gets a diamond ring, a pearl necklace, a mink coat, a corvette, and a credit card. And the 55-year-old overweight guy who’s balding gets a 23-year-old beauty queen for a wife. See? Well, he’s happy with that.

Julie Hilsen (1:05:04)
you

Mm-hmm.

gets a trophy. Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s an exchange.

He’s happy. She’s happy. Why there’s no judge, you know, judgment. Yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:05:25)
Right. That’s right. So

when she comes to him and says, honey, I want to go to Vegas for the weekend, he says, OK, here’s five grand. Have a good time.

And when she comes back, he gets rewarded because she’s grateful, right? See? So none of this is about judgment. It’s about seeing what’s there. So let me tell you how this works. Let’s say you invited me to your home to see your garden. I don’t even know if you have a garden, but if you did, you might say, Jim, you seem to like flowers. Come and look at my garden. I say, okay. So I show up at your house and I go into Julie’s garden and I see…

Julie Hilsen (1:05:41)
Mm-mm.

Jim Marshall (1:06:02)
hydrangeas, chrysanthemums, roses, irises, peonies, forget-me-nots.

tulips, et cetera, et cetera, right? Now, the reason I can analyze it like that is I know a lot about flowers and gardening. If you bring some little five-year-old kid into that garden, he’s going to see and smell exactly what I see and smell, but all he can say is, these are pretty and they smell nice. That’s all he knows, right?

Julie Hilsen (1:06:34)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:06:36)
That’s what you would expect from a five-year-old. Now, most adults are like that little kid as regards human beings. They don’t know what they’re looking at. And that is why more than 50 % of the people in the United States are not married. We’re talking about elderly people, not kids and old people, right? And of the people who are married, more than 50 % of them get divorced.

They clearly didn’t know what they were looking at.

So this book solves that across 35 axes. You see? So this guy, after he finds the wife’s motivation, right, he can say, huh, I wonder where she is on the scale of choice. And he looks it up. I can see. Okay, see, that’s another insight he has into her. And then he might look at…

Julie Hilsen (1:07:10)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:07:33)
the scale of relationships. Where is our relationship on this scale? it’s at level three, that’s pretty good, see? So by the time he finishes analyzing this, right, he goes to world three, he’s gonna understand her better than she understands herself. This is very empowering information. I’m not saying you tell her.

Julie Hilsen (1:07:48)
Hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:07:56)
People always say, tell me my level. I’m not going to do that. Get the book and figure it out yourself. The e-book is cheap. E-books don’t cost a of money. It’s available hard bound, soft bound e-book. So get whatever version you want. And it’s all there. And the book is very user friendly. There is a glossary.

Julie Hilsen (1:08:01)
Mm-hmm

Okay.

Yeah, I can imagine.

I’d want the paper copy because I like to look at charts like, like in my book, I have like charts in my book and I like to circle things and go over and market. Yeah, so I could see one, I’d want a paper copy, but I’m tactile. like to, I like to hold on.

Jim Marshall (1:08:24)
huh. Right. Most people do. Yeah.

Yeah, most

people prefer a physical copy. So anyway, that’s what this is about. And I just want to say one thing in closing.

Julie Hilsen (1:08:38)
Yeah. Yay!

Jim Marshall (1:08:44)
The data in this book are vital for every person and can help you to achieve your goals faster and easier by explaining what might otherwise seem to be inexplicable or random.

Julie Hilsen (1:09:00)
Or even worse, like internalizing their behaviors as something that you caused. You know what mean? Like, that was my, I had a hard time relating to my mother-in-law for many years, and we developed a friendship, like we really did. But it took me a lot of time not to take things personally. So I, I would have really enjoyed having this knowledge to help, you know, our relationship because it was very important.

for me to feel like I could talk to her about, you know, the boys and their development or my husband or, you know, just the family unit’s very important to me and I wanna feel understood and I want others to feel understood around me. So it’s a lot of pressure when it’s just like, suddenly it’s your family, you know, like, so I would have really had a good time exploring our friendship as it developed through the lens of these, the 32.

Jim Marshall (1:09:45)
Yep.

Julie Hilsen (1:09:57)
scales and yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:09:57)
Yeah, it’s very empowering information

if it has anything to do with people. And as I said, that’s where most people have difficulty, you know, with people. this is anybody who can read English reasonably well and wants to improve himself or others should get this book. That’s who it’s for. Now you might think, well, everyone wants to improve himself. And I’m sorry, that’s not true.

Julie Hilsen (1:10:22)
No,

no, you can’t.

Jim Marshall (1:10:23)
There are many people,

all kinds of categories of people who are not interested in improving themselves or others.

Julie Hilsen (1:10:30)
It’s the old adage, you can bring a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. It’s just, that’s way it is!

Jim Marshall (1:10:34)
Rocio Platts, narcissists,

professional criminals, war criminals, corrupt politicians, insane people, you know, very ignorant people, morons, you know, there’s a lot of people that just, they’re not in the market for self-improvement, but if you want to improve yourself or others, even if you think you’re perfect,

You can use it on others. So dad sees that Junior’s having trouble with school. Right? That’s a very common thing. He says, Junior, come let me show you this. He opens the book to the scale of scholarship. He puts it in front of the kid. Junior is 12 years old. He knows what scholar means. He looks at it he says, you mean there’s a scale of scholarship? Dad says, yeah, where are you on this scale? Guaranteed Junior’s going to want to know that because he’s having trouble as a scholar.

He’s motivated.

Julie Hilsen (1:11:30)
And the temptation is to say, I think you’re here. No, you’ve got to say, where are you?

Jim Marshall (1:11:33)
No. Why?

So Junior looks at it and here’s what’s going to happen. In a matter of seconds, I’m saying 20, 25, 30 seconds, he’s going to find a bracket. He’s going to say right away, all I can see right away, it’s definitely not one, two, or three, because that’s people at the top of the scale and I’m not good at this. See? So he’s got it down to four. And then Dad says, well, why don’t you just go ahead and read the text?

and then you can get it exactly. So he reads the text, he comes back and says, well, now that I read it, I can see I’m at level five, that’s not so great, no wonder I’m having trouble in school. And then dad says, well, we can move you up to level four and you’ll be a better student. And he says, you can? Dad says, yeah, it’s right in the book, it tells you how to do it.

So now dad works with the kid, he uses the chapter, which I give explicit instructions on how to make a better scholar. And he works with the kid and next report card he’s getting B’s and C’s instead of C’s and D’s. Everybody’s happy. The dad didn’t have to invalidate the kid, he didn’t have to send him to remedial classes, he didn’t have to hire a tutor. See, it’s just.

him and the kid and the book. See? And it’s really just, you know, working with the kid and giving him certain types of directions. Okay, look up this word, write that out, you know, and he gets better at it. So that’s how simple this is. This is not complicated or obscure because it’s natural law. So I just found it.

and wrote it down in a way so everybody can use it. Just like Fibonacci found the Fibonacci sequence. You know, he looked at these certain numbers that appear in nature. You know, like if you look at a sunflower, if you count one way, it’s got one Fibonacci number. If you count the seeds the other way, it’s got another Fibonacci numbers. And that’s true in many places in nature. And he looked at these numbers and said, these numbers keep coming up. What are these numbers? So he was able to reverse engineer it.

Julie Hilsen (1:13:25)
you

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:13:47)
backwards into where he got the formula and he gave it to us. So now we know the Fibonacci numbers to infinitude. So it’s just

Julie Hilsen (1:13:50)
you

so cool there’s a book i

read about magic it’s magical numbers it’s written by a math teacher

It has a red cover on it. I can’t think it’s mathematical, magical or something. And it goes through for a person who’s not a math mind and explains all these. And it’s really enlightening. It’s so fun. And it just, gives you the pattern to everything. And also I wish, cause I never thought myself as a math mind, but I love patterns. I love geometry. So I think more people love numbers than they realize. They just haven’t.

Jim Marshall (1:14:08)
Okay.

Yeah.

Julie Hilsen (1:14:30)
haven’t been approached at their level. So your book would help them figure out what level of math maybe they are and how to, you know, advance on. I don’t know.

Jim Marshall (1:14:32)
Mm-hmm.

It’s a fruitful source of insight is basically what it’s about. Every time you correctly spot a level, whether it’s yourself or another, you have an insight. So you spot yourself on scale number one, you have an insight. You bring that insight to scale number two. So you’re a little bit smarter. Then you have another insight and you bring those two insights with you to scale number three. So…

Julie Hilsen (1:14:42)
Yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:15:08)
The more you use this, the easier it is to use because you’re more insightful. It just gets easier and easier because you’re insightful. So you can look at things and take them apart very quickly. You can look at this guy and figure out what’s going on with this guy. it’s part of it is…

knowing what scale to use and then when you know what scale to use observing him and seeing where he is on that scale and then you know you can predict what that guy is going to do.

You know, most people are surprised often by the behaviors of others. That doesn’t happen to me.

I don’t say anything about it, know, for example, I understand Donald Trump very well. I’m not saying I like him or I don’t like him, but he’s very predictable to me. is Joe Biden, because I understand him. I know what they’re about. So…

Julie Hilsen (1:16:06)
He’s gonna say the most outrageous thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Could you predict what Kamala was gonna say? Because I just feel like she just said whatever people thought she wanted them, know, whatever she thought they wanted to hear. But I don’t know.

Jim Marshall (1:16:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, they clearly

had a strategy, was, we’re not admitting anything. We’re not giving them any data. We’re just going to say Trump is evil and I’m going to bring happiness to everybody. That’s pretty much what our campaign was. The joy part of it didn’t go anywhere. It flopped. So then they went into fascist, Hitler, garbage, know, all that stuff. And, you know, that just made people mad.

Julie Hilsen (1:16:41)
Yeah. Yeah!

And the

mass consciousness was like, no, we’re not, we’re not stupid. They made him mad. It was insulting, right? It’s we’re in the same time.

Jim Marshall (1:17:01)
Right. Right. Right. I guarantee

you when Biden made that comment about that Trump supporters are stupid, and again, I’m not taking sides in this, but I guarantee you millions of people got out the checkbook or went online and sent money right then. you’re to call us stupid, huh? Here’s another $25 for the Republicans.

Julie Hilsen (1:17:15)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:17:29)
See, it’s like when Hillary was running, she said, the bastard of deplorables. We lost the election right there. You can’t insult the electorate. They’re not going to vote for you then. Well, duh. Bill didn’t do that. He was a lot smarter. He was too smart to do something stupid like that. See? So he got elected.

Julie Hilsen (1:17:33)
Yeah, the deplorables.

Right?

No.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:17:55)
He got re-elected and he left office with a high approval rating. And he was the last president ever to sign a balanced budget. He signed four balanced budgets. So you were talking about a smart guy, okay? And his wife was just nowhere near as smart as he. Now, most people are not as smart as Bill Clinton. He was a Rhodes Scholar.

Julie Hilsen (1:18:00)
Right. man, Mike.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Marshall (1:18:23)
You ever listen to him speak? He is a very interesting person to listen to. You can see that he’s in the present moment. He parses a relevant response. He delivers it articulately, you know? That’s what you want from someone.

Julie Hilsen (1:18:25)
Yes.

Yeah, you want somebody who

has a level head on their shoulders that can be commander in chief. I mean, that’s, they’re supposed to be in control of our security and making decisions on the federal level and not all this stuff that’s micromanagement and overreach that makes people nervous, right? Like, and I noticed a lot of the blaming was exactly what the other people were doing. Like they say, he’s doing this, this and that. And I’m like, wait a minute.

Jim Marshall (1:18:49)
Right.

Right.

Julie Hilsen (1:19:12)
Could have sworn I saw that she was doing this, this, and that. Yeah, it’s just, I’m so glad it’s over. Yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:19:14)
Yeah, projection. Trump said something interesting a few days

ago. He said, you can’t be president of the United States if you don’t love the American people.

And that was his way of saying, calling my supporters garbage, which the president did, which Biden did, is he was saying that disqualifies you. You shouldn’t be president. You can’t do the job. You have to love the American people to do this job. It’s a tough job. Many people have said about Bill Clinton that because I have

Julie Hilsen (1:19:47)
I mean

Jim Marshall (1:19:52)
I never met him myself, but I have a lot of friends who’ve been connected to him, say, when he talks to you, it’s like you’re the most important person in the world. And he likes you, and he’s interested in what you have to say.

Julie Hilsen (1:20:07)
Right, and I was just talking to my husband about this this morning. I said, you know what, I’m not really like, we were talking about who’s gonna be president next. I said, I don’t care if it’s a Republican or Democrat. I just want them to be a good person. And they care about humanity and care about, you know, just advancing us to where we need to go as a world and peace and harmony. you know, it’s like, I’m beyond the labels. And my husband’s like, yeah, I feel the same way. I said, I don’t.

Jim Marshall (1:20:19)
Yes. Right.

Julie Hilsen (1:20:36)
I care if the Democrats come up with somebody if libertarians come up with somebody. I’m open. I loved Robert Kennedy and his message. Like I got his sweatshirt. Make love not war. Junior. Yeah. Yeah. So genuine. Yeah.

Jim Marshall (1:20:46)
You mean the current Robert Kennedy. Yeah, I like him too. Yeah, he seems like a very nice, sincere,

rational person.

Julie Hilsen (1:20:57)
And when crows come up to his balcony and hang out with him, I’m like, we’re good. If you saw the video of him, he’s just having coffee on his back deck and this family of crows, he’s befriended, just come up and hang out. I’m like, this is so cool.

Jim Marshall (1:21:16)
You know, I noticed when his name is announced, when he’s at some rally or something, the people go berserk. I mean, they cheer for him wildly. It’s amazing. It reminds me of his father and his uncle who got that same response. And people loved them.

Julie Hilsen (1:21:32)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we live in exciting times and I’m so excited. I’m going to get your book for sure. And I can’t wait to see where I could do better or, you know, I’m always looking for ways to show up when in my highest good. And so this would be a great objective way. And maybe I can bring in my tapping and give myself compassion and love if I feel like I’ve missed the mark. There’s no there’s no wrong. It’s just where you are. What

Jim Marshall (1:21:39)
Very interesting.

It’s just the truth. This is a tulip and this is a rose. You know? And there’s no judgment involved in that. It actually helps, you know, talking about life of love. It promotes a life of love because you see what’s there and you deal with what’s there.

Julie Hilsen (1:22:23)
you

Mm-hmm. Right.

Jim Marshall (1:22:30)
So

you’re not going against the grain. You’re not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. You you see what the person is about and you deal with it at that level. It makes it very easy to like people, to harmonize with people, to establish a rapport. And once you do that, then

Julie Hilsen (1:22:53)
It was like, wow.

Jim Marshall (1:22:57)
you’re on your way, whatever it is, whether it’s an employee or your boss or your boyfriend or your kid, that’s the big thing. You get in harmony with them, you see what they’re about and you deal with them for who they are.

Julie Hilsen (1:23:12)
Yep. What a great conclusion to a Life of Love episode, because that acceptance and knowing we’re all of one, you know, it’s just beautiful. Jim, I really adored this conversation. I can’t wait to get it out to the audience. And thanks again for all this. It’s been really wonderful.

Jim Marshall (1:23:30)
Thank you Julie, it was a pleasure talking to you.